The Protection Paradox: Why We Sabotage Our Divorce Journey with Dr. Philip Agrios
Self-Sabotage in Divorce: Understanding Hidden Patterns
In this compelling episode of How to Split a Toaster, Seth Nelson and Pete Wright explore the psychology of self-sabotage during divorce with guest expert Dr. Philip Agrios. The conversation delves into how unconscious patterns can derail both relationships and divorce proceedings.
Understanding Self-Sabotage
Dr. Agrios identifies three fundamental reasons for self-sabotage: past success followed by loss, avoiding necessary actions, and fear that success brings more pain. These patterns particularly impact divorce proceedings where emotional stakes are high and rational decision-making is crucial.
Legal Impact and Court Behavior
Seth Nelson emphasizes how self-sabotage manifests in legal settings, particularly during depositions and court appearances. Clients often undermine their cases by over-talking, treating minor issues as emergencies, or failing to provide required documentation timely—all of which increase legal costs and complexity.
Key Insights:
Self-sabotage often serves as unconscious protection from perceived greater pain
Court time constraints require focusing on truly significant issues
Understanding behavioral patterns helps navigate divorce more effectively
Breaking Free from Self-Sabotaging Patterns
The discussion outlines practical strategies for recognizing and addressing self-sabotage, including:
Identifying protective behaviors versus growth behaviors
Working with attorneys efficiently to manage costs
Understanding personal triggers and responses
The episode provides valuable insights for anyone navigating divorce while dealing with self-sabotaging tendencies. Dr. Agrios' expertise combined with Seth's legal experience offers practical tools for maintaining focus and making better decisions during divorce proceedings.
Links & Notes
Check out Dr. Philip Agrios on his website, LinkedIn, X/Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube
Check out Dr. Philip’s book Life’s One Law
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'Pete Wright:
Welcome to How to Split a Toaster, a Divorce Podcast about saving your relationships, from True Story FM. Today, your toaster is always on broil.
Seth Nelson:
Welcome to the show everybody. I'm Seth Nelson. As always, I'm here with my good friend Pete Wright. Today we're diving into the hidden patterns that quietly derail relationships from the inside out. Our guest, Dr. Philip Agrios, is here to unpack the psychology of self-sabotage. What is it, where does it come from, and how can it wreak havoc during the divorce if left unchecked? Whether you're trying to save your marriage or move on from it with a little more clarity, we've got a legal strategy and emotional insight that will help you avoid sabotaging your future. Dr. Philip, welcome to the Toaster.
Dr. Philip Agrios:
Thank you so much for having me. It's an honor.
Pete Wright:
So glad you're here. Jersey represent. Glad to have you on the toaster. We're talking about self-sabotage, we're talking about it in the context of relationships. I want to jump in right away with how does someone recognize they're sabotaging themselves when they're in the middle of it? It seems like this very well might be a core trait of a compromised individual going through a deeply emotionally challenging situation. Where do we start?
Dr. Philip Agrios:
Absolutely. Just a little background. I went through a horrific divorce myself, so fully understand the whole process. Don't recommend it. If you can, figure it out between the two of you. But if it is, I can give some type of pointers to help them to maybe neutralize the emotions, because a lot of times it's emotional, compared to just being logical, "This is what's happening," but it's all happening at the same time. So what I discovered was that self-sabotage doesn't undermine you. It actually protects you from the very success that you are seeking because subconsciously that success is more painful than doing the same thing over and over again.
Pete Wright:
We're going to have to unpack that. It protects you from good is I think what you just said.
Dr. Philip Agrios:
Right. Because at that moment the subconscious mind sees it's dangerous, so it wants it to keep where you're at what because that's what you know, because if you actually have that success, it could bring you become more uncomfortable. So there are actually three fundamental reasons why we have self-sabotage, if I may go into them.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, please.
Dr. Philip Agrios:
So the first one is that you've had success before and then you lost it. So as a business owner, you might've had some good success and then something came along, 2008 or COVID or whatever and you lost it. So then as you start to rebuild, you never get to that point again because if you ever lose it again, it's more painful. So we don't get to that point. If you had your heart broken and now you're going out and dating again and you find somebody, but you don't get to that point again of that love because if you ever had your heart broken again, it's too painful, so you settle and you don't go after what you truly want. So that's the first fundamental reason is you had success before and you lost it. The second one is sidestepping what's necessary. "I have to get on this podcast and listen to these guys and learn something. I have to write a book, I have to go back to school. I got to listen now. You know what? There's a great new Netflix series. I'm going to binge-watch that and then I'll get back and doing what I'm supposed to do."
Seth Nelson:
Okay, whoa.
Pete Wright:
Jesus, are you in my house right now? My God man.
Seth Nelson:
Just described Pete's life.
Pete Wright:
I know. How could we both lean in on the same joke and it still feels so gross?
Dr. Philip Agrios:
Absolutely. So you don't do what's necessary to get to that success because again, it's uncomfortable and your body's protecting you from your thought of this is going to be more painful of that. And the third one is more success equals more pain. So your gentlemen have your businesses right? Have you ever had a great month and the next one sucked?
Pete Wright:
I'm sure. I don't know what you're talking about.
Dr. Philip Agrios:
Right, exactly. Well, what happened was you did what you had to do and things got so out of hand. Maybe you had more clients than you could handle or other things were happening. So the next month you don't continue doing what you're doing because the pain of maybe not serving them because now you're too overwhelmed or, "Now I'm never going to see my family. I don't see them now, now I'm so busy." So what we do is we stop doing that success and we drop it down to where we are or maybe even drop it down even further so we'd ever get to that point and have that pain. So the three are, "I've had success before and I lost it." Sidestepping what's necessary and three more success equals more pain.
Seth Nelson:
I have a question on this.
Dr. Philip Agrios:
Sure.
Seth Nelson:
In a life a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, I used to work with kids that were in trouble with the law and in truancy and it was whether I worked in residential programs, I worked in day programs. It was approximately a six-month program. If the kids did well, they would go back to their community school, their zoned school.
You got a kid in there early on who's having trouble. But over the six months makes a turn. He starts or she would start thinking beyond their nose and seeing that there's consequences and they would be in their last two, three, four weeks gearing up for graduation. This was the first real success they've ever had in their life. When I was working there, those were the kids I would focus most on because it was comfortable to them to go get in a fight to cuss out a teacher and not graduate because they knew what was going to happen and they were comfortable with the negativity and they liked being there the first success that they had, but they've never had success. And then if they hit the success, they knew they were going back to that school where everyone viewed them as the bad kid that had to go to that other school where all the positive in leadership roles they were currently taking, now they're kind of at the bottom of the totem pole. And those were the kids that I would focus on to be like, "You've got this, man. You can do this. Don't regress, don't go back. Success is going to be different for you." So is that part of self-sabotaging as well?
Dr. Philip Agrios:
Absolutely. Now, there are thousands of reasons why at that moment that child is going back into that regressive to where they feel comfortable. One of the reasons could be is that now he goes back or she goes back, they're known as the bad person. Now that the goody-good two-shoes maybe on the other extreme in their mind and now they're going to get bullied or whatever the case may be, because they're trying to reassess who they are and telling these kids, "This is who I am." That could be painful for them. It could be they're old... It's like drug addicts. When you get clean, now you go back to the same old group, now they're pulling you to a point of self-peer pressure to go back and then you start doing drugs again because it's harder to disconnect from those friends that have been with you and all the other things that you're thinking compared to moving into another direction.
So like I said, there are thousands of different reasons why, but it always comes down to that if they continue doing what they're doing when they graduate, it will be more painful than going back to who they were, even though they spent six months doing what it is and they know this is what they need to do, they won't. Same thing with business owners and whomever is that they know this is what they'll do to be successful, but the pain, it's basically what price are you willing to pay?
Pete Wright:
Which really explains why moving in towards a divorce can be so challenging because the uncertainty of living outside of a marriage that you understand could be greater pain. The uncertainty is pain greater than that you're living with inside the marriage.
Dr. Philip Agrios:
Or you go the other extreme, I don't deserve the pleasure of being out of that toxic situation. They're both there at the same time, pleasure and pain are theirs. Which one do you want to look at?
Seth Nelson:
We're viewing this as kind of self-sabotaging where someone does something just like wreck their life. But I think there's another point to make here is staying in the relationship can be self-sabotaging. Where I literally have had more than one potential client call and say, "Well, I really wish that he would hit me. I really wish that she would cheat on me," because there was this line in the sand that they were saying had to be crossed by the other person to give them, the person who was being damaged, the green light to move forward with the divorce. Other people have it worse. How can I be going through? I said, "Let's be clear, you just said you want to become the victim of domestic violence, and that's your line? What would you say to a friend who said that to you?" And that is another form of self-sabotage where you're just hurting yourself by staying in it or sending these false lines in the sand that need to be crossed for you to move forward with your life.
Dr. Philip Agrios:
I've had clients in that situation where they're not realizing that your personal life and your professional life are one. So if they're not dealing with that relationship in their personal life, they're not going to evolve in their business. So I remember one particular woman who wanted to, it wasn't a divorce, it was a long-term relationship. So same thing, whether it's marriage or a long-term relationship. And we kept on, it took about a month or so to help her realize that the reason why she was staying in there were all these false thoughts, the stories she made of herself. Then depending on her sequence, her sequence was basically where she was an over-giver and she was focusing that if she actually took for herself, it would be selfish of her. And I try to tell her that selfishness and self-nourishment are not the same thing. And then when she realized that by actually disconnecting not only from that person, it would help her, but it would also help the other person to find somebody that they would then be loved the way they needed to be loved, that it wasn't her responsibility for them to be taken care of. Your own responsibility is to yourself.
But it was a give and take where she realized she was deserving of it and seeing how all the things were going well and then from there, how it would be also serve them. And when she did it, there was some regret and things like that, but over the month her business almost doubled. So when you help to purse, depending on who you're talking to, you have to talk into words that make sense to them. And that's the discovery that I made, that I can talk to people on a subconscious level specifically to their sequence.
Seth Nelson:
And how does that play out during a divorce process? Because let's say they're already in there and now they're dealing with the lawyers and the court system and the stress. And I always say that people think that their divorce is front page news and it never is. "I don't want this in the court file because people..." No one goes, looks at that stuff. We think that people think about our lives much more than they really do.
Pete Wright:
I mean, unless your name ends in, what, Kardashian, you're fine.
Seth Nelson:
Right. And that's why I changed my name from Kardashian to Nelson, but that's a side story.
Pete Wright:
It was Seth Kardashian. Has a ring to it.
Dr. Philip Agrios:
Might be related.
Seth Nelson:
So how does that play out in the divorce process and how do you get people to be less emotional and more businesslike for lack of a better term in the process itself? Because that's where people are listening to the show, they're about to go through it or going through it and they need help saying, "Wait, how do I put this into practice?"
Pete Wright:
Well, yeah, because that's when it gets expensive. As soon as you self-sabotaging in the attorney's office.
Seth Nelson:
Right. If you're self-sabotaging during the process, it's going to get extremely expensive.
Dr. Philip Agrios:
I've had this case, I've had divorce lawyers who were clients and during the process, as they were learning what I was teaching, they would go, "Look, I have this woman client who she's not budging and it's the best interest for everybody, but she's not budging." So I would ask him a few questions. We were asked to tame her sequence and I'm saying, "The reason is because of this, this, and this," and I want you to start using these words to help her to understand. And as he started doing that, within about a week or two, she started to then compromise because he was able to show her why what she thought was going to happen wouldn't happen, why she wasn't trusting him or herself or her potential ex. And by doing so, it allowed her to, on a subconscious level, realize that going forward was more beneficial for her than trying to stay and get this few things that really didn't matter, but it was the principle of it. So we do that all the time, whether or not we have coaches and authors and people, psychologists who consult with other people, we'll help them go through and figure out what the other person is and help them to negotiate that pretty well.
Seth Nelson:
And part of that key is that what they think is going to happen, or, "I need this because of that and I need to keep the house because it's good for the kids."
"Well, do you really need the house because it's good for the kids? Or is it better to have a smaller house that is more manageable for you now that you're not going to be married and that might give you more Finances and disposable income not to be house poor so you can take the kids to Disney World or go on trips or pay for lacrosse, or whatever it may be."
So people get very tied into objects and possessions that I need or they'll be dead set on something and then we'll resolve the case. And sometimes they get what they needed or wanted, I should say, not needed. And sometimes they don't, but usually if I run into them a year or two later, they'll tell me, "Oh yeah, we changed the parenting plan. The one we fought for didn't work well."
Dr. Philip Agrios:
Casual, right.
Seth Nelson:
"That Thursday overnight, it turned out that I got a job and I had to work Thursday overnight and it's worked out." Or sometimes they say, "You know what? The other side is still difficult to deal with, but it's so much easier now." And I'm like, "Yeah, they haven't changed. You have, you've changed how you deal with it. You know how to handle it better for you. I'm not saying you're doing the other side any favors, just the opposite. You're making your life easier." So that zebra might not change it stripes, but how you view it might change.
Pete Wright:
It's so funny what it takes. The power of just our emotional attachment to history and even when you realize, when you see on paper that the word principle is just spelled in dollar signs when you're talking to your attorney, even that, it can be just sort of immovable if you're not sitting down and doing the work and trying to figure out where your emotional attachment to history is sabotaging you over your fear of the future and uncertainty. That's an equation I'm sort of trying to put together in my head. That seems to make sense.
Dr. Philip Agrios:
Yeah. It comes down to what we call their superpower. And when we talk about emotion, that's only one of the three superpowers. One of it is that emotional part of it. The other one is the overthinking, which has no emotion. It's just very structured to the point where they don't want to go out and they don't want to be flexible. It's overthinking and overthinking and not able to disconnect from that thought because it's more painful to go into something else. The other one is that the other person's feelings were hurt and their feelings are getting in the way of making a proper decision not only for themselves, but for the family as a whole, that there's children in, because usually as you see is that without kids, it's just a business transaction. With kids is a whole another story.
Seth Nelson:
Even without kids.
Dr. Philip Agrios:
People will find a way.
Pete Wright:
Right. They'll find a way to do that, but it gets more complicated with the kids, right?
Seth Nelson:
Sure, absolutely. I'm just saying that very frequently on the show we'll talk about, well with the kids, without. But I have had a lot of cases, dissolution, marriage without children that are just as difficult if not more than ones with kids because sometimes the kids, they figure out the kids stuff pretty quickly and then they move on and we get the financials. Generally speaking, I hear what you're saying. For all those listeners out there that don't have kids that are going through it, I don't want you to ever think that, "Oh, I don't have a kid. This isn't important. This isn't relevant." It is just as difficult. It's still your life, it's still a divorce, it's still broken dreams and promises. So we hear you out here.
Dr. Philip Agrios:
Thank you for correcting me with that. You have the experience. It's just what I had. Perfect. It makes total sense.
Pete Wright:
I want to look at some of the dark corners because some of these things are kind of the things you're shining a light on are the things your attorney is going to tell you, the things that your former spouse is going to tell you, your friends are going to tell you. What are some of the overlooked ways for people listening to this show who might not yet see themselves in the patterns we're describing, that they might be unconsciously or subconsciously sabotaging their future financially, legally, emotionally, during and after the divorce? What do you see?
Dr. Philip Agrios:
So let me go down into what I discovered, maybe that would help answer that question more effectively. Would that be okay?
Pete Wright:
Please, yeah.
Dr. Philip Agrios:
So basically I found out there are actually three basic traits that make up who we are. We call them the director, the supplier, and the communicator. And when we place them in a sequence called the protective sequence, depending on how you were born, born, this way, depending on how those traits are sitting, whether or not they're in the superpower end or the saboteur end, it actually creates six sequences of human behavior. So there's really only six people in the world. Once you understand the other person's sequence, you'll know exactly why they're behaving in the way they're behaving. So there's no more judgment out of it. It becomes into understanding why they're doing what they're doing. So imagine the ex or their children and whomever. Once you understand the sequence of that person, you can then understand what they're going through and then using what we call the antidote to help balance that protective sequence. So they go into the success sequence, the growth sequence, instead staying stuck. So somebody outside that knows somebody of that sequence can actually subconsciously shift them and help them through that. And that's why lawyers who know this technique not only use it with their clients, but they can use it in court as well.
Pete Wright:
Okay. Let's pivot just a bit to court and start with self-sabotage in court during a deposition. Maybe Seth, why don't you set us up and then we'll get a response.
Seth Nelson:
Well, that was such a great actually lead into that transition on how people can use things in court. As you know, Pete, we've done it with you on the show previously on how to prepare for a deposition and how to answer things. And it's nerve wracking and stressful.
Pete Wright:
It's unpleasant, yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Which is just basic rules, listening to question, think about the question. If you understand it, answer it honestly. This is the hard part, in the least number of words as possible. Then stop talking. Least number of words as possible. And literally I've had clients tell me, "I was answering that question in my head, Seth. I knew I was supposed to stop, but I just wanted to say it couldn't stop." And that's just to self-sabotage. Despite practicing and listening and doing hypotheticals that have nothing to do with your case. I run people through all sorts of different, well, I could just call them skill sets and practices that I'll ask questions that have nothing to do with your case, just to practice how you answer questions. Because if you do it in their case, they're thinking about their case. If you do it about other things, they're not. And it's a way to practice.
And literally they'll say, "I knew I was supposed to stop, but I just wanted to say it." "And after all that practice, and you're paying me very good money to not take my advice. You are literally hurting your own case because you never know when you add that little extra, that's going to pull that thread, that lawyer, that judge is going to ask you in court that might now lead down to a road that would've never been opened. It just had a do not enter sign and you just took that away."
So that's the biggest one I see in court and in depositions. The other thing I see in self-sabotaging, you have people who everything's a big deal. And so when everything's a big deal, you kind of don't know how to decipher that down in a way that you can just get it into court. And that everything is a big deal might be the lunches aren't right. So mom puts in all the junk food and dad's upset about that because he's a health nut. Well, I'm like, "Okay, but it's just a lunch and that's not what the court's going to be concerned about." Or mom might be concerned that when dad plays with the two-year-old, tosses the 2-year-old up into the air and it's dangerous because that's what dads do. But moms typically don't do that. That's not something that's going to take up time in court, but everything is a big deal. Everything might be in your view, an emergency, but under Florida law, check your local jurisdiction, it's not an emergency for the court. And remember, Pete, in court, I'm lucky to get a two-day trial. Let's say that's if I get a two-day trial, I have eight hours.
Pete Wright:
Lunch boxes are not entering into it.
Seth Nelson:
Right, you don't have time, the judges don't have time. And I think people don't really appreciate how limited it is for the judge to see what happens in court because the client has more information than anyone. Then the lawyers get information and then I have to boil that down from deposition information and document information and expert information and reports that come from experts and the data that the reports relied on or that the expert relied on creating. I got to get all that down into four hours in a one-day trial or eight hours in a two-day trial? So you got to get in and get out, and you got to get that jigsaw puzzles pieces put together in a way that the court's going to see the ultimate picture you want it to see. And I think when people are just so overwhelmed and they think every little thing, every little thing, every little thing, and it just balloons your fees, it just balloons your fees and then you get frustrated when it didn't get into court and your lawyer's saying, "I only had so much time to get stuff into court and I, as your lawyer, make the decisions strategically what I think is going to be most persuasive."
Dr. Philip Agrios:
Yeah. How do you tie that back to our first principles? So at that moment, that person, their superpower is communication. They talk, talk, talk. The reason why they overly talk is causes them to validate themselves. Once they understand that they don't have to say that and they feel validated, then they can just be very quick with the story and follow exactly what you do. Or they're scattered all over the place, they forgot they weren't focused and things like that, and they're thinking about a thousand things and not really focusing on that. Going back to the lawyer, you probably have lawyers and non-lawyers listening to this as well, is that that lawyer that comes in, he's not prepared. That's his sabotage. He's scattered, all over the place. The other person who maybe feels for the other person and doesn't ask the hard question because they got their feelings into play. It all depends on their sequence and why it became imbalanced. But as soon as they use the antidote, now their questioning is much more effective. The people who are answering is much more effective. And by using this, it allows them to really get to the point and go to the direction in which they want to be.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, it's a very good point about what their lawyer will ask and how they respond to their clients. Because part of the skill set, I think is meeting people, as you said, talking to them in a way that they can understand. So in doing that, there's a balance of letting the hypothetical client that wants to tell you everything, let them tell you everything. Even though you know as a lawyer, most of what they're telling you, 50%, 51%, 80% is not relevant to you doing your job to help move the process forward and represent them in the best way that you can. And that rubs up against, the tension is making them feel like you're listening to them because they need to be able to trust. But then they get their first bill and they're like, "Oh my God." And I'm like, "Well, we were on the phone for six hours on Tuesday," in the hypothetical. So there's a balance there in having people trust you, be heard, feel like they're being heard, but you also protecting their self-interest and moving the case forward as best you can with the financial constraints that come with all cases.
Pete Wright:
You guys are both painting a challenging picture for me, and I wonder if we could wrap up with some thoughts on what it takes to become self-aware of self-sabotage. Because when we're stuck in these patterns that you're described, both of you are describing, it seems like there needs to be, one, a readiness, like a readiness for state change, and that's hard to see in the emotional storm of divorce or whatever you're dealing with. And two, some sort of event, maybe it's just looking at the invoice the first time, that jars you into a bit of a reckoning. Am I making that to fine a point? How do you recognize, how do you come to learn that you're the one that is causing unnecessary conflict or delay or sabotage, that it's on you?
Dr. Philip Agrios:
There's only two things we do as humans. We protect and we grow. We contract, we expand, we give and take. We're vibrational beings. So it's either you're in protection or you're in growth. It's either way, depending on where you're looking at. At that moment, if you're out of the flow and things are not, you know how you are, just everything's going well and you feel good and all that, that's when they're actually using their antidote and they don't know it. But any type of resistance, stress, worry, anything that causes you to get out of the flow, you are in protection. And a great question to ask someone to become aware is why am I protecting myself at this moment in time? I'll say it again. Why am I protecting myself at this moment in time? It helps them to open up to see that at this moment, I'm reacting this way because of such and such and such, or this person's representing my mother.
My mother did this always to me or whatever the case may be, or how this person's reacting to me is causing me to have to defend myself, to protect myself for some reason. And when people do that, they start to at least pull back of it and go, "It's okay. I'm just in protection. There's nothing wrong with me. I'm not an idiot," or the 100 words you're saying to yourself, you're just in protection and why you're doing that. And that helps it to help them to see it in a more of a neutralizing way.
Pete Wright:
Seth, what do you see when people, I mean, is it the invoice jarring that gets people to be aware? Do you find a similar sort of path to awakening when you're dealing with them in a deposition?
Seth Nelson:
No, no. Part of it is, "Hey, I'm trying to save your fees here." Part of it is an analogy of if I'm a captain of a ship, I need to know certain information at certain times in the storm. We're in a storm, right? When we're in the storm and it's coming through and we're batting down the hatches and water's coming over the bow, and we got to drop the sails. I don't need to know how much fruit and vegetables we have down below, right? I'm focused on keeping the ship afloat, and then when the storm passes, now I'm concerned with what repairs we need to make, then I might need to know what kind of extra supplies we have. Is anyone injured? How much food do we have to feed people because now we're going to be moving slower to get back to shore. That's when I need that information.
But if you're telling me about what tools we have and what food we have during the storm when I'm just trying to batten down the hatches, that's not going to be effective communication, and a waste of your time and money. The other thing, what I would tell you of self-sabotage, and I think this is the key of Pete watching Netflix, is it is overwhelming the amount of documents that we ask clients to get because they're mandatory. We're required to give them to the other side. And that is a big pain point in self-sabotage where we have to follow up and our paralegals follow up and follow up and follow up, which every email, every phone call, every time you send a document that's not accurate or outside the scope, and we have to look at it and say, "No, this is what we asked for," that's all more money, time, and effort. And that is probably a big pain point, that, all clients.
Dr. Philip Agrios:
And imagine knowing that person's sequence, you'll know exactly why it's overwhelming. And by focusing on the reason why they're having this stuck, not why we think they're stuck, by actually knowing that you can then help them to shift it and give them exactly what they need to move forward.
Seth Nelson:
And one of the ways we do that, we'll offer, "Hey, we need to set an appointment for you to come in for one hour," or, We're going to work on your discovery together."
Pete Wright:
Give you a head start.
Seth Nelson:
It's going to be one hour. I don't care if we get three documents in the hour or if we get all the documents in the hour, but we're going to get something done. Bring your phone. If you have a laptop, bring your laptop with connection to email because we're going to be resetting passwords and you're going to have to authenticate it. And then when the bank doesn't let you in, and I know the bank is 10 minutes away, we're going to stop at 40 minutes in and in that 10 minutes you're going to drive to the banking and tell them, "Please print my documents that I need." So there's ways that we can help people. And it's the counselor at law, not the attorney part of the job.
Pete Wright:
I hope when people are listening to this that they see their own patterns as big or as small as they may manifest day to day. I know just talking about it, I see myself, and it's not just the Netflix thing. Sometimes it's HBO Max and maybe even Paramount.
Dr. Philip Agrios:
There's always a difference.
Pete Wright:
This has been an illuminating conversation, Philip. Thank you so much for being here, for helping our folks out in our community. We sure appreciate your time. You've got so much going on. I've got your link in the show notes to Transcend. Now what do you want? Just give us a brief idea of where people can learn more about the antidote and the sequence and all the wonderful things you're teaching us.
Dr. Philip Agrios:
So they can go to TheTNowMethod.com, TheTNowMethod.com. And going there, they have two paths of they can look at more our membership, to go individually by themselves or they can go look at a short video to explain this in deep and more in depth if they want to do more of coaching with me in a group setting. So that's the best way for them to go to, and that's what we call our technique, is the T-NOW Method, T standing for Transcend.
Pete Wright:
Perfect. All the links in the show notes. Thank you so much for hanging out with us today. Philip, we really appreciate you.
Dr. Philip Agrios:
Thank you. I hope this was very valuable for you and your audience.
Pete Wright:
For sure. And thank you everybody for downloading and listening. We sure appreciate you being a part of this community. On behalf of Dr. Philip Agrios and Seth Nelson, America's favorite divorce attorney, I'm Pete Wright, and we'll see you next week right here on How to Split A Toaster, a Divorce Podcast about saving your relationships.
Outro:
How to Split A Toaster is part of the True Story FM Podcast Network, produced by Andy Nelson, music by T. Bless & The Professionals and dB Studios. Seth Nelson is an attorney with NLG Divorce and Family Law with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, how to split a Toaster is not intended to, nor is it providing legal advice. Every situation is different. If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney or employee of NLG Divorce and Family Law. Seth Nelson is licensed to practice law in Florida.
