The Final Toast: Your Essential Divorce Questions Answered
The Final Toast: Answering Your Burning Divorce Questions
In this farewell episode of How to Split a Toaster, family law attorney Seth Nelson and co-host Pete Wright tackle a collection of diverse listener questions about divorce, relationships, and co-parenting. From custody concerns to financial disputes, they address the complex challenges many face during separation.
Key Questions Addressed
The hosts explore crucial topics including coercive control in divorce, psychological evaluations for new partners, dissipation of assets, and enforcing custody agreements across international borders. Seth provides practical legal insights while Pete offers thoughtful perspective on navigating these challenging situations.
Notable Legal Insights
Child support and alimony obligations remain non-dischargeable even in bankruptcy
Courts take coercive control seriously when properly documented and presented
Foreign divorce judgments can be domesticated and enforced in U.S. courts with proper procedure
Co-Parenting Challenges
Seth and Pete discuss strategies for handling difficult co-parenting dynamics, including:
Managing relationships with new partners
Protecting children during high-conflict divorces
Navigating custody when mental health issues are involved
Addressing parental alienation concerns
Financial Considerations
The episode covers important financial aspects of divorce:
Division of marital assets and debts
Handling joint business interests
Pension division through QDROs
Tax implications of custody arrangements
As their final episode, Seth and Pete reflect on over 230 episodes helping listeners navigate divorce while preserving relationships. While new episodes won't be produced, the extensive archive remains available as an ongoing resource for those facing divorce and separation challenges.
This farewell episode encapsulates the show's core mission: providing practical legal guidance and relationship-saving strategies to help listeners move forward constructively after divorce.
Links & Notes
Got a question you want to ask on the show? Click here!
-
Pete Wright:
Welcome to How To Split a Toaster, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships from True story FM. Today, the bread is officially toasted.
Seth Nelson:
Welcome to the show everybody. I'm Seth Nelson. I'm here as always with my good friend, Pete Wright. Today we've got a batch of listener questions for you and an update on the toaster itself. Stick around to the end for the news.
Pete Wright:
We're doing some house cleaning today. We've got more questions than we know what to do with, and so we're going to answer, we're going to roll through these and help some people. We're going to help the people and let's start with Trapped and Terrified. Is coercive control considered domestic violence? Can this be used in divorce? My ex has been using controlling tactics for me for a long time. Gaslighting, name-calling, cussing prevents me from seeing friends and family and I've become isolated. He manipulates our children. They're basically willing to do whatever he wants them to, because he gets so angry when he doesn't get his way. He speaks negatively about me to the children. They're afraid to tell anyone, including their therapist because they know he will punish them if he does. I want a divorce, but I'm terrified of 50/50 custody being the default, and I feel I can at least be a buffer for my children now. There's been no physical violence so far, and he acts like a loving husband and father when we are in public. Will the court care about this?
Seth Nelson:
Yes, the court will care about it. A lot of questions in there. One, is the controlling considered domestic violence? You've got to look at the domestic violence statute and get with a lawyer in your local jurisdiction, because it has to be in Florida, it has to be that the control is tied to imminent threat of harm, or being a victim of domestic violence. So this question with the facts as presented, basically talks a lot about yelling, screaming, manipulating kids, but no physical violence. So then it's really hard to get that on domestic violence.
Yes, the court would care about all of this. It's a shame that the kids won't even talk to their therapist, but obviously they're in therapy, which is good. Hopefully, they're being truthful with the therapist. Maybe you need a guardian, in light of a social investigation if you decided to get a divorce. I never advise anyone to get divorced. That's not a legal decision, that's a personal decision if you make that decision. But sticking around to protect the children, that's a lot of reasons, and a lot of people stay in marriages for just that reason. That's their own personal choices that I don't comment on. Based on what you're saying here, it doesn't seem like it's helping anyway.
Pete Wright:
Right.
Seth Nelson:
So hope that's helpful.
Pete Wright:
We've got a number of questions that seem to fall into the same area, so if we need to short-hand previous answers, feel free to do that. This one comes from Barb L. Can I request psychological evaluation of my ex's live-in partner who will be around my children?
Seth Nelson:
Yes. Doesn't mean you're going to get it. So you can request almost anything. But yeah, if there's an issue there in Florida statute, there's statutes and then there's rules and under those, you can ask for a psychological evaluation of a person. You can ask for entry upon land. There's a lot of different stuff that you can do, but it doesn't mean you're going to get it. So check with your local jurisdiction, figure out what you have to show the court, what you have to prove in court to get what you're asking the court to do.
Pete Wright:
I love that. You can ask for depositions to be taken astride a unicorn if you want. You're definitely might not get it.
Seth Nelson:
But really it's a good question, because a lot of people come into your kids' lives that you have no control over, and if there's psychological issues there that are harming the children, then the court should know about that.
Pete Wright:
For sure. This one from Rhonda and Jean, my ex weaponizes our child's medical appointments, showing up uninvited. How do I handle this? Their argument is, they are allowed because they're co-parenting.
Seth Nelson:
If you have shared parent responsibility in Florida and medical decisions are one of them, yeah, they are allowed. So eventually when you're saying weaponizing, I don't know exactly what the co-parent is doing, taking it over, yelling, screaming. There's some doctor's offices that tell the parent, "You're not allowed here." Because they raised such a ruckus. So I would get with a local lawyer in your jurisdiction and double check, what are they specifically doing? Can you just alternate the appointments? Can you show up and have him take them? Or have her take them? And you show up via FaceTime, or on the phone? There's different ways to get this information just to have less conflict in that we've all been in the doctor's offices. Those examination rooms are small. There's not a lot of space, so it's not a really best place to have. It's never good to have negative interactions, especially in front of the children, but that's particularly a bad place.
Pete Wright:
Well, and it's tricky with this question because there's nothing in here that screams weaponizing. It feels like we're missing some detail that might be useful, because just showing up doesn't seem to be weaponizing.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, you're allowed to show up at your kid's medical appointments.
Pete Wright:
Got a bit of a longer one here from Deb. Is it considered parental alienation if I actively discourage my five-year-old from calling my ex's girlfriend mommy, especially when my ex is encouraging it? My child has been living with him 50% of the time for eight months, and the girlfriend has taken on many parenting responsibilities like school pickup, bedtime routines and discipline. I'm struggling with multiple layers here. My ex claims I'm being controlling and alienating when I tell our child, "You only have one mommy." But I feel like it's my parental identity that's being erased. The girlfriend hasn't legally adopted our child. We're not even officially divorced yet, and frankly, their relationship might not last. What makes this more complicated is that my child seems genuinely confused, and has started asking me if it's okay to love the girlfriend like a mommy. I don't want to damage my child emotionally, but I also don't want to set a precedent where any future romantic partner can claim parental title.
How do courts typically view this? Is there a legal distinction between naturally occurring affection and deliberately blurring parental roles? Can I request specific language in our custody agreement about titles and introductions to future partners? And if my ex takes me back to court claiming I'm alienating our child from their new family structure, what evidence would actually support an alienation claim versus legitimate boundary setting? I'm also wondering, does it matter if the girlfriend disciplines my child, makes medical decisions when my ex isn't available, and has started attending parent-teacher conferences? At what point does someone become a de facto parent versus just a live-in partner? And do I have any say in that process? Sorry for the long-winded message. Thanks for the great show guys. Thank you, Deb.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, well great questions and long-winded was no problem. There's a lot to unpack here that a lot of people deal with. I always call these the ghost people. They're new people that come around and they're involved in your kid's life. Much like happens in a lot of cases once you get divorced, because people move on. So one, I do not see any alienation here, because you're telling your child not to call the girlfriend Mommy. If you, the parents could agree on a term to call her, that would solve the problem. So let's just say that the new girlfriend's name is Lisa. It could be bonus Lisa. It's positive, right? If they get married it could be bonus mom. Step has a negative connotation. So I would work with them and say, "Look, she's obviously involved in our child's life." She's what appears to be from your view, it seems like if she's making good decisions that she's a positive influence, let's be positive about this, and not set up this artificial tension about the name, mommy.
That should only be used for the biological mom in my view, and courts can order that. No, you are not going to have a child call this person mommy, because that's going to confuse the child and that's on the child's best interest. So that would be one. Now, so I'm not worried about pairing alienation at all, or alienating from the new family structure. They're the ones creating this problem and confusing the child, not you. But if they start showing up to parent-teacher conferences, you would hope this person would understand their role and their place. It sounds like they don't. They really might be stepping over. If they show up to be supportive and are quiet, and saying, "I just want to get the information because when the kid's at my house, I want to make sure that I'm doing what you're doing at your house." So it really goes...
Pete Wright:
That seems respectful.
Seth Nelson:
Right. But if they're there saying, "Well no." And taking over and trying to be the mom, be the parent, that's when it crosses the line, and it's a gray area. And also medical decisions, they have no right to make any medical decisions. They're the stepparent, not even, they're the girlfriend. So they got to know their place, which it doesn't sound like they do. Hopefully the relationship lasts if she's good to your kid, but we don't have any control over that.
Pete Wright:
Which is ultimately the goal. Hopefully your ex finds someone who is good to your kid, whether it's Lisa or someone else. Move through it.
Seth Nelson:
That's right.
Pete Wright:
Find somebody good for your kid. All right, deduction dilemma in Denver. My ex and I have been arguing about who gets to claim our three kids on our taxes. I have primary custody, but he claims since he pays more in child support, he should get to claim at least two of them. What does the law say about this?
Seth Nelson:
Oh, tax question. I love it. Check with your accountant. When you say you have primary custody, if you have the children more than 50% of the time, first off, you're going to claim head of household. Your documents in your divorce, hopefully say who claims what kids and why. If you get with your accountant and you figure out, "Well, if I claim all three it does this to my tax liability versus only claiming two, only claiming one or claiming none." It's not how much tax you ultimately pay in or get back, because you're already paying in through your payroll deductions that get sent automatically. So you just got to say to your accountant, "Hey, what's the delta here? What are we arguing about?" A lot of people ask me this question and I send them to their accountant, or I'll run some quick numbers, but I don't necessarily have all the information.
I don't have your mortgage statement for your mortgage interest deduction. I don't have all your charitable contributions. So you got to look at all that, but give it to your accountant. This one couple was fighting over this, God, this was years and years ago, and it was a case that I wasn't involved in. A friend of mine was telling me about it. And I said, "What's the delta?" And it was like $1,000. And the lawyers were four or $500 an hour. It's like, let's figure out how much we're arguing about before we dig in. And the way you do that is you get with your accountant or your tax professional. Good question.
Pete Wright:
Drained and Dissipated. I've been listening to your show for a while now and I'm hoping you can help me out. My husband and I are in the process of divorcing and things have been getting heated. I recently found out that he's been selling off some of our joint investments and spending the money on his new girlfriend. My lawyer mentioned something called dissipation of assets, but I'm not quite sure what that means or how it could impact our settlement. Can you shed some light on this?
Seth Nelson:
Well, I'm just glad that drained and dissipated didn't come afterwards. I've been listening to your show for a while and I'm drained and dissipated. I got very nervous there for a minute.
Pete Wright:
I know.
Seth Nelson:
This is really good question. This happens all the time. So a dissipation is when someone is spending marital money on non-marital activities, which is a case-by-case basis. So if you don't typically go to Vegas and gamble money away, but then you start going through a divorce, and he starts withdrawing money and goes to Vegas and gambles it away, you can claim dissipation. If one of your hobbies is that you go to Vegas once a quarter, and you guys gamble away, and he goes once a quarter and gambles away, well then it's not dissipation because that's what you've typically done.
Pete Wright:
Wow.
Seth Nelson:
So if you have a husband who is now withdrawing joint assets and spending the money as new girlfriend, yes, you can look at that and say, "Look, we did not have an open marriage. We did not spend money on other people during our marriage. He withdrew $20,000. He spent it all." This is the key. This is where people get confused. I want $10,000 back. Why only 10 instead of the 20? Because the other half of the 20 was his money anyway, it's marital. He's entitled to half, he can spend it on anything he wants. Once again, find out how much has he taken? Because it cost a lot of money to prove where the money went.
Pete Wright:
Especially in Vegas.
Seth Nelson:
Yes.
Pete Wright:
Especially in Vegas.
Seth Nelson:
So it's a great question, but that's what dissipation is. Now sometimes dissipation is they start taking out cash. And here's the other thing you can say, even without a dissipation claim, you could say, "You took out the cash, where did it go?" And if you can't account for it, I would tell the judge, "He took out cash." Now if it's on credit cards or it's all traceable, then you trace it.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Yeah. I just love the implication of that. We normally sell our investments and spend them on his girlfriend, so that's okay.
Seth Nelson:
That's not dissipation.
Pete Wright:
That's not dissipation. CEO in Crisis, I'm a successful small business owner. My wife and I are in the process of getting divorced. When I first started my company over a decade ago, she quit her job to help me get things off the ground in the early days, and then decided to not jump back into the working world to take care of our young kids. Since then, she's been helping out with the business whenever she can, but her primary focus has been on raising our children. Now that we're splitting up, I'm worried about what might happen to my company. She's not involved in the day-to-day operations anymore, and after being out of the traditional workforce for so long, she may have a hard time getting back into her old career. What are my options for protecting my business interests while also making sure she's taken care of in the divorce settlement?
Seth Nelson:
So let's start with equitable distribution. You're going to be awarded your business, because you're the one running it. The question is how much is the value, and how much of that is enterprise goodwill, which just means your company has value in goodwill because of the name of the company, not because of you. Then you have your personal goodwill. In Florida, check your local jurisdiction, personal goodwill is not a marital asset. So if your company's worth $1 million, but the personal goodwill, that people are coming because it's you, as opposed to it's just the company.
So take a car dealership, you don't care who the owner is of that local car dealership. You're going because you like the make and model of the car and you're getting a good deal. But if you are going to get your haircut, you do care who's standing behind you in the chair. That's personal goodwill. So if you have $1 million company, but $200,000 is personal goodwill, now the marital portion of that company is $800,000. You owe her $400,000. Do you have $400,000 somewhere else, or technically 800? Because if the house has $800,000 value with no debt, you keep the business at $800,000 marital, you keep your $200,000 non-marital personal goodwill, she keeps the house, you're done. That has nothing to do with protecting her, taking care of it. She's taking care of in a divorce settlement. I don't know if that means by the division of assets, or alimony that you might pay or child support. So there's more to unpack there, but you're really talking about equitable distribution in that question.
Pete Wright:
Sure. Secretly Surveilled says my soon to be ex and I are in the middle of a messy divorce and we can't seem to agree on anything. I recently discovered that he's been secretly recording our phone conversations, probably trying to get some dirt on me. Is this even legal? And if not, what can I do about it? Recording our phone conversations, the conversations they're having with each other.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, it looks that way. So you got to check your state. Most states are a two-party consent. So to record any conversations where you have an expectation of privacy, in your home, on the phone, what have you, then that would be a two-party consent. People typically don't get arrested for that, or charged by the state for violating that and that crime. But in a lot of states you're not allowed to bring that stuff into evidence. Okay, so what are my legal options? One, stop talking to them on the phone.
Pete Wright:
That seems like a pretty clear one.
Seth Nelson:
But people forget that, right?
Pete Wright:
Yep.
Seth Nelson:
Two, maybe sign up for Our Family Wizard, or Talking Parents or another parenting app, so you only communicate that way. Or just do it in email. Text is really hard to go back and forth on, but people communicate a lot via text these days. So get with your lawyer and just say, "Hey, I think this is happening. What's going on here?
Pete Wright:
Okay, Overseas Obstacle says, my divorce was finalized a few years ago and I've been doing my best to co-parent with my ex. The problem is she recently decided to move to Europe with her new husband, taking our kids with her. I'm worried about how this will affect my relationship with my children and my ability to enforce our existing custody agreement. What are my legal options here? That seems like a reasonable thing to be concerned about.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, so the question is does she have authority to move to Europe? If you're in Florida, and unless your document said differently, if you're going to move more than 50 miles away from the primary residence at the time of the divorce, you have to get a court order agreement of the parties. It's called a relocation case.
Pete Wright:
And ocean counts.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, it's as the crow flies and crows can't really fly across the pond to Europe. So actually I don't know that. I have no idea how far crow's.
Pete Wright:
Crows are amazing. They can do a lot.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
All right.
Seth Nelson:
But yeah, no, that's a problem. So I would first check your final judgment, your parenting plan to see what, if any authority did she have to move across the pond. And if she didn't, I would go get a lawyer and say, "This is a problem. How do we solve it? How do we get the kids back?" If you want to get them back in wherever you might live, and what might that look like? The other option is maybe you think it's good for the kids to be there, but you're just worried about your relationship with them. Then you talk about redoing a parenting plan and making it a long distance parenting plan.
Pete Wright:
The West Coast crows travel an average of 366 miles. For those who are wondering, that's less than the ocean from Tampa to Europe. Okay, real-time research, had to get that done.
Seth Nelson:
Nice.
Pete Wright:
Drowning in Debt says wife and I are in the process of getting divorced and we're trying to figure out how to handle the student loan debt we incurred during our marriage. I went back to school for my MBA and she took out loans to help cover the costs. Now we're splitting up. How will the court decide who's responsible for paying off that debt? Will it be considered marital property even though the degree is in my name?
Seth Nelson:
Check your local jurisdiction. States deal with this differently. In Florida, is a debt taken out during the marriage?
Pete Wright:
It's a shared debt.
Seth Nelson:
Marital debt. And it usually gets assigned to the person whose name's on the debt because you don't trust the other person to pay it. Then you get an offset on equitable distribution.
Pete Wright:
Wow.
Seth Nelson:
With something else. Yeah, good question.
Pete Wright:
Rental Dilemma says I bought rental property before I got married, but during the marriage my husband and I used our joint funds to renovate and maintain the property. Now that we're getting divorced, he's claiming that he should be entitled to a portion of the property's value since we both contributed to its upkeep. Is there any way I can prove that the property should be considered my separate asset?
Seth Nelson:
This is a wonderful question. So in Florida there's actually a statute on this exact fact pattern.
Pete Wright:
Really?
Seth Nelson:
And it came about because a guy had a premarital house that they did an addition to, I think it was a carport they put on, and they also paid down with marital money, the principal of the mortgage that was non-marital debt, because it was in the husband's name prior to marriage, because he bought the house prior to marriage. The wife's name was never on the property. And she made the argument, "Well, there's marital funds here." So in Florida, you have a piece of non-marital property at the start of the marriage, that has a portion of non-marital component and a portion of a marital component. So any dollar that you used to pay down the mortgage, you're going to get 50 cents on.
So there's actually, you have to do this curvature fraction where you take the value at the date of marriage, and the debt at the date of marriage and it comes up with a fraction. And then you take that, and you look at the value at the date of filing divorce, and how much the mortgage was then and how much got paid down, and you run the math. And then you see how much it went up by percentage basis. So I have an Excel spreadsheet that I use all the time for that.
Pete Wright:
Of course you do. That is fascinating. Okay, Ex-patriot Predicament. My ex-husband and I got divorced while we were living abroad, and the divorce judgment was issued in that country. Now that I'm back in the states, I'm having trouble getting him to comply with the terms of our agreement. He's still living overseas. What are my options for enforcing or modifying the foreign divorce judgment here in the US?
Seth Nelson:
You can bring a foreign judgment to the US, and depending on the country it's in, you can petition the court to make it a court order in the state that you're currently a resident in. And if they do that, then you can file a motion for Contempt to Enforcement. The other option is go to wherever the foreign jurisdiction was and have them try to enforce it. And that same answer is also true if you live in the states and you get divorced in Nevada, I'm sorry, people only get married in Nevada.
Pete Wright:
No, only married in Nevada.
Seth Nelson:
If you get divorced in Kansas and then you move to Florida, you can bring that Kansas order, divorce decree to Florida. It's called domestication. You make it a Florida order under the full faith and credit clause of the United States Constitution, and now it's a Florida order that can be enforced.
Pete Wright:
Okay, Blindsided Bride says, before my fiance and I got married, we signed a prenuptial agreement that outlined how we could divide our assets in the event of a divorce. However, I recently found out that he had significant credit card debt that he never disclosed prior to signing the agreement. Can our prenup be amended to address this previously undisclosed debt? Or will it be considered invalid because of his lack of transparency?
Seth Nelson:
The answer is yes, potentially to both. Can your prenup be amended? Sure, if you guys want to do a post-nup, you can amend it. See what your prenup says. It might say any debts in his name are in his name and therefore it's not a problem, even if he didn't disclose it. But in Florida, it's a huge deal if you did not properly disclose your true net worth with your income, your liabilities, your assets, your debts, your credit cards. So you got to have full frank disclosures. Otherwise, you can move to set aside the prenup or say it's not valid. All sorts of terms you can use for that. But because not lack of transparency, that's the layman's term, is they didn't provide full frank disclosures. So that's a big problem in Florida. But check your local jurisdiction. But I would just read the prenup first because if it was credit card debt in his name, maybe it doesn't matter if the prenup says everyone keeps the debts in their own name. So look at that first.
Pete Wright:
Okay, Bankrupt and Bewildered. It says, my husband and I are in the middle of a contentious divorce, he just filed for bankruptcy. I'm worried about how this will affect our divorce proceedings and the division of our assets. Will his bankruptcy filing take precedence over our divorce settlement? Or can the court still order him to pay spousal support and child support? That's an interesting question.
Seth Nelson:
So check with a local lawyer and a bankruptcy lawyer, but child support and spousal support is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. So it could affect your assets that you're dividing up depending on how they're titled and stuff. And if you both are in big financial problems, sometimes it's better to file jointly, joint bankruptcy, I mean. But check with a bankruptcy lawyer on this, but student loans, taxes, spousal support, child support, non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. You're stuck with them.
Pete Wright:
Fascinating. Desperate Dad, I've been trying to co-parent with my ex-wife, but it's been a nightmare. She's got a rich aunt paying for all these lawyers to come after me and I can barely afford child support and alimony. She's supposed to be on meds for her bipolar and I don't think she takes them. I'm worried about the kids being with her, especially since I can't see them alone right now because of my own issues with drugs. I'm clean now and working on getting more custody, but it feels impossible. What can I do to make sure my kids are safe when I'm not around?
Seth Nelson:
Well, first off, congratulations that you're clean and working on taking care of yourself. That's just amazing. It's a tough battle day-by-day, so keep that up.
Pete Wright:
For sure.
Seth Nelson:
Most states have need an ability to pay for attorney's fees. If you don't have the ability to pay, but she's constantly being funded, maybe that money can be deemed income to her, so she has to pay some of your fees. But you just got to check with the lawyer. If neither one of you have money, there might be some help that the local bar associations give or the courthouse gives. But you really need to, if it's post-judgment, the way it happens in Florida is you've got to file a supplemental petition to change the parenting plan and show that there's been a substantial change in circumstance. It's really hard when people have third parties that can fund litigation, because it can weaponize it.
Pete Wright:
Again, ghosts. What do you call them? The ghost people?
Seth Nelson:
The ghost people, yeah. They're around, you just don't see them.
Pete Wright:
Ghost rich aunts.
Seth Nelson:
I would take one of those. Do you have one of those?
Pete Wright:
Right. I wish. To my aunts listening.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, generous aunts.
Pete Wright:
If you're generous aunts. I'm still here.
Seth Nelson:
A rich aunt that's not generous like
Pete Wright:
No. Scrooge McAunt. Nobody asks for that. Bullied by the Bar says my divorce has been an absolute nightmare, and my ex's lawyer is so aggressive, it's unbelievable. They're constantly threatening me and my attorney, and I feel like even my own lawyer is intimidated by them. Is this normal behavior for a divorce attorney? Or should I be looking for new representation who can actually stand up to this bully? I'm at my wit's end trying to cope with such a hostile legal team on the other side of the table.
Seth Nelson:
I don't really worry, or take with a grain of salt when people send me mean letters, and file motions and say all these negative stuff. It's what's the real issue? Go to court. Here's the problem, here's the solution. Here's the authority for you to give us the solution we're recommending. If you're uncomfortable with your lawyer, go interview other lawyers. We have a whole episode on what to ask lawyers when you're looking for new ones or just starting the process. But if you feel like they're just outgunned or outmatched, it might be that they are. And it also might be that they're just laid back and like, "Oh, this doesn't matter." But if you feel like that breakdown of communication between you and your lawyer about those issues, then that's an issue
Pete Wright:
Because part of what I've learned from you is that as an attorney, you're telling me what I need to be worried about and what I need to not be worried about. And so that's the conversation you need to have. It might not be that they're intimidated, it means that they don't care.
Seth Nelson:
Because it's not worth caring about. Now look, there's some lawyers out there that are just relentless with the motions, and the litigation, and well then you got to respond. And you just got to have a team that can do that, or work weekends, or evenings or whatever it is to get the job done.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, Closeted and Concerned. So I recently went through a divorce and in the process I came to terms of the fact that I'm gay. My ex-wife is very religious and I'm afraid that if she finds out about my sexuality, she'll use it against me to try and get false custody of our kids. Can my sexual orientation be used as a factor in determining custody arrangements? Or is that kind of discrimination prohibited by law?
Seth Nelson:
Check your local jurisdiction. It should not be an issue.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Gay marriage is allowed. So the fact that the gate should not be an issue in court. Now, it doesn't mean they're not going to try to raise it as an issue, but it shouldn't be an issue. So I would definitely just go talk to a lawyer and try and get through the process.
Pete Wright:
I can also see why here we are in 2025, why you might ask this question. Why it might be a state of concern. I get it.
Seth Nelson:
Hey listen, judges don't apply the law all the time in court, or they have so much discretion they go where they want to go. So talk to a lawyer, lay out what you're doing for the kids. Keep things quiet for now, because it shouldn't be an issue and we don't want to raise it as an issue is what, I tell that to all my clients like. Don't talk to your friends about your divorce. Don't get on the apps. Don't text people. Everyone you talk to is a potential witness. So you always want to keep your life quiet when you're going through a divorce.
Pete Wright:
High Conflict Headache says, my soon to be ex spouse has always been a bit of a drama queen, but their behavior during our divorce has been off the charts. They keep threatening to harm themselves if I go through with a divorce, but then turn around and demand that we finalize everything immediately. I suspect they might have a high conflict personality disorder like histrionic or something. How can I navigate this divorce process, while protecting myself and my children from their erratic behavior?
Seth Nelson:
Best thing you can do is get your divorce over as soon as possible. That's pretty much the same with everyone, and by as soon as possible, you got to have all the information, enough information or if not all the information, to make informed decisions about your finance, your equitable distribution, alimony, child support, how the parenting plan's going to work. People say this all the time that if you leave me, I'll take my life, I'll do self-harm. So if you believe that to be actually true, and that they're literally having a breakdown, you can call the authorities to do a wellness check. But really it's just getting through this process. And if anyone hurts themselves, that's on them, not on you.
Pete Wright:
Accused by Agreement Breach says, my ex-wife recently filed a post-divorce suit against me claiming that I'm in contempt of our divorce agreement, and demanding that the court enforce the terms of our settlement. She's alleging that I haven't been paying the full amount of child support, and that I failed to transfer some of the assets outlined in our property division. I don't believe I've done anything wrong, as I've been following the agreement to the best of my ability. But I'm not sure how to defend myself against these allegations. What are my options for responding to the post-divorce enforcement action, and what can I expect from the legal process? Could I potentially face legal consequences if this court finds me in contempt, even if it's unintentional? Would I go back to my attorney for this or do I need to get an appeals attorney?
Seth Nelson:
You'd go back to your regular attorney because there's nothing on appeal. They're just saying right when you say that in contempt of the divorce agreement, and demanding that be enforced, that's a motion for contempt enforcement. File them all the time. Other lawyers file them. I defend them all the time. So in Florida, but check your local jurisdiction, contempt, and this goes to part of your question, it's a really good one. When you say, well, could I be held in contempt even if it's unintentional? The answer is no. It's got to be willingness. So the document, the court order has to be clear and unambiguous. You would've had to have the ability to comply with it, and you would've had to willfully not comply. That's what gets you contempt. Being in contempt isn't that huge of a deal. The judge is like, "Hey, you had an order. You could have done it. You purposely didn't do it, you're in contempt."
Some judges will try to then hit you with sanctions and say you have to pay their side's attorney's fees. Maybe they'll hit you with a fine of some sort. So that's where being in contempt of itself, some people are found in contempt and the judge goes, "I'm going to admonish you in court." And they say, "Don't do it again. Move on your way." So it depends on what the punishment is and does it fit the crime, so to speak. Not the crime as in, you're being arrested. Just in layman's terms. And you also say, I've been followed to the best of my ability. So I don't really know what that means. If you're short every month and you just don't have the money, but you think you're complying, well you got to work through that. But I would ask specifically, how much do you think I'm not paying you? And where does it say I was supposed to pay that? And then just do the math. Once again, figure out what you're arguing about. But this is not an appeal. Go back to your regular trial lawyer.
Pete Wright:
All right, Stymied by Shoddy Split. This is our last question. I've been waiting for my share of my ex-husband's pension benefits for months now, but the planned administrator keeps rejecting the Quadro that was submitted as part of our divorce settlement. They say that the quadro doesn't meet the plan's requirements and that it needs to be revised and resubmitted. I'm starting to worry that the attorney who drafted the Quadro didn't do it properly in the first place. What specific provisions should a Quadro include to ensure that it's accepted by the plan administrator? Can I hold my attorney responsible for the delay and any potential financial losses if it turns out they made errors in drafting the Quadro? And is there anything I can do to expedite the process of getting the Quadro approved since I can start so that I can start receiving my share of the pension benefits? Seth, the first question you're going to ask is, does Pete remember what Quadro is? And Pete's going to say, "It's a qualified domestic relations order."
Seth Nelson:
That wasn't going to be the first question. That was going to be the second question.
Pete Wright:
No, there's another question I haven't thought of.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, there's the first question. Do you remember the lawyer that we had on the show to talk about Quadro's?
Pete Wright:
Was it Matt?
Seth Nelson:
Very good. Matthew Lundy.
Pete Wright:
Matthew Lundy. And he did a video, a commercial about how excited he is about Quadro's. No, that wasn't him.
Seth Nelson:
That wasn't him. No, but Matthew Lundy, you can Google him and do qualified domestic relations order. He's licensed in more than one state. I don't know how many. So I would call Matt, I would refer you right to Matt on this and see if he could help you. So let's just break it down for other listeners. Quadro, Qualified Domestic Relations Order. That is an order that its genesis comes from federal law when you're dividing up a pension, which is governed by ERISA, which is federal law. As we all know, federal law takes precedent over state law, when it has certain jurisdictional issues. This is one of them. The plan administrator does not have to listen to a state court judge when that judge tells them, "Here's my order, divide the pension." The plan administrator controls that process. It's not uncommon for a Quadro to go back and forth with the plan administrator, but really the way to do this is to go to the plan administrator and say, "What needs to be in this order?"
Because they're the ones that's ultimately signing off on it. And then they tell you, and then you take that order to the court in the state court and they sign it. You take it back to the plan administrator, you say, "Will you accept this one?" They're like, "Yeah, this order's wonderful." Well, of course it is, they're the one that told you what to put in it. Okay, so I don't know about holding your lawyer responsible. I would also look at how much you're supposed to be getting and where that money's been going, because if your final judgment or marital settlement agreement that was adopted in the final judgment, the divorce decree, said you're supposed to get $1.000 a month and the husband, let's say, has to pay you $1.000 a month while he's getting the pension until the Quadro is in place, and you get it directly from the company. So you got to figure that out.
Or maybe they're holding it for you and when you get paid, you're going to get all your back pay, so to speak, at once. But Matthew Lundy. Very good, Pete, that you remembered what Quadro was and the first name of the lawyer.
Pete Wright:
The first name of the lawyer, I hear that's the most important part of the name, but check your local jurisdiction.
Seth Nelson:
Well, listen, every judge's first name is Judge.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, that's right. Judge Reinhold. Absolutely. So now we're at the news part of our show today.
Seth Nelson:
Yes, the news part. And I will tell you, I'm glad that we did a listener question episode.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Me too.
Seth Nelson:
That's the best way to go out in style.
Pete Wright:
We're going out in style. The toast is cooked. This marks the end of our journey with How to Split a Toaster. It has been extraordinary, and educational, and illuminating, and I hope informative for so many who have listened and who have written these questions, as always are fantastic. And do you have anything you'd like to share?
Seth Nelson:
It's just been a blast. I've just really enjoyed it, and we're just both really busy. I got other stuff going on in my life that makes it really hard to continue to just do something that I love. I've got responsibilities at home. I've got responsibilities at the office. I would like to take some vacation time would be nice.
Pete Wright:
I wonder what that's like. Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
So it's just been absolutely wonderful. And I have people that send me emails saying thank you for the toaster. I have people, clients that listen. I have witnesses that I've asked in their depots, what have you done to prepare for this deposition? "Oh, I listened to your podcast on how to prepare for depositions." And here's the other thing is, even though we're not going to be doing new episodes, they're all out there. How many do we have, Pete?
Pete Wright:
231, 232. Somewhere in there.
Seth Nelson:
Over 230 episodes for people to listen to. In modern age of the internet, the podcast isn't going away. We've left it out there at no charge for all these years for all these people. So it's just been a whole lot of fun to do it with you. I think questions ,and the way you can dissect these difficult topics, anything from domestic violence, to divorce, to kids, to money, to the process has just helped a lot of people. And it just, sometimes it's time for a show to sunset. We didn't want to do a big cliffhanger like who shot J.R?
Pete Wright:
Man, what I would give for a cliffhanger.
Seth Nelson:
I know.
Pete Wright:
I should just roll the theme to Dallas as we ride off into the sunset through the oilfields.
Seth Nelson:
It's such shame that so many people won't know what we're even talking about.
Pete Wright:
Nobody knows what we're talking about. As Patrick Duffy once said... No, I really mean this year has been a great honor and it's been very important to me. I think just in the arc of podcasts that I'm involved with, it's been really important for me to do this with you, and to learn and to help. And to your point, we're going to do everything we can to leave the show up and available. I think there are a few episodes out of the entire catalog that are not evergreen. Most of the things that we've talked about are explicitly evergreen. You'll get something out of it wherever you are in your divorce process. And we encourage you to search the archive, and we hope it helps you get what you need. And when it doesn't, if you're in the Great Hillsborough County, the great state of Florida, then you can call Seth.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, but search by topic, because I just recently had someone say, "I just listened to your episode on Guardian ad litem. I didn't really understand what that was. I just listened to your episode on what a motion is." Lawyers are always talking about motions, and how do they get set? So I agree with you, Pete. I think most of them are evergreen because it's about the process. And unfortunately, until we can develop a different one.
Pete Wright:
This is the one we have.
Seth Nelson:
This is the one we have. It's been great. It's been an honor.
Pete Wright:
It's been great.
Seth Nelson:
We got to give a shout out to the man that never speaks.
Pete Wright:
I know, Andy Nelson, producer extraordinaire. No relationship relationship to Seth Nelson.
Seth Nelson:
Nope. I say that not because I wouldn't want him as a relative. I just don't think he would want me as one of his relatives.
Pete Wright:
You have offered to be adopted by Andy many times, but his kids have objected. I don't understand that.
Seth Nelson:
I went to his parents and said, "Make me a brother."
Pete Wright:
Can you just do that? That's incredible.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, you can do adult adoptions.
Pete Wright:
I love it. I did not know that. And now I'm very excited. There is opportunity out there. Hey, this has been great. Thank you to Seth. Thank you to Andy. Thank you most importantly, to everybody who's been listening to the show, we appreciate your time and your attention, and we hope you've gotten something out of this. And I usually say at the end of a listener questions episode, keep those questions coming. Please don't. Check your local jurisdiction and find your local attorney. They will answer your questions for you. We're not taking them anymore. But on behalf of Seth Nelson, America's favorite divorce attorney, I'm Pete Wright, and we'll see you never. Right here on How to Split a Toaster.
Seth Nelson:
It's so weird you don't know how to end it. I would just say it's been great.
Pete Wright:
It has been great.
Seth Nelson:
It's really been great though. So I hope everyone can get through the process quickly and as amicably as possible with the least amount of attorney's fees, and move on and-
Pete Wright:
In peace.
Seth Nelson:
Be true to yourself. Be kind to each other and raise those kids.
Pete Wright:
Raise those kids. Thanks everybody.
Outro:
How to Split a Toaster is part of the True Story FM Podcast Network, produced by Andy Nelson. Music, by T. Bless, and the Professionals and DB Studios. Seth Nelson is an attorney with NLG Divorce and Family Law with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, How to Split a Toaster is not intended to, nor is it providing legal advice. Every situation is different. If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney, or employee of NLG Divorce and Family Law. Seth Nelson is licensed to practice law in Florida.
