Streamlining Your Split: Decluttering Divorce Chaos with Julie Coraccio
In this enlightening episode of "How to Split a Toaster," hosts Seth and Pete are joined by acclaimed expert Julie Coraccio to explore the art of post-divorce decluttering. As life takes a new direction after divorce, the accumulation of both emotional and physical clutter can become overwhelming. With Julie's expert guidance, listeners will uncover practical strategies to not only declutter their spaces but also declutter their minds during this transitional phase.
Julie Coraccio, a seasoned master of decluttering and a published author, shares her invaluable insights on how to approach decluttering in the midst of a divorce journey. As the hosts engage in a candid conversation, Julie discusses the power of simplifying possessions, redefining attachment to items, and finding emotional clarity through the process. Tune in to learn how letting go of unnecessary baggage, both material and emotional, can pave the way for a rejuvenated post-divorce life.
Join Seth, Pete, and Julie as they navigate the world of decluttering as a tool for transformation and renewal in the aftermath of divorce. This episode provides a fresh perspective on embracing change, creating space for new beginnings, and finding a sense of liberation by streamlining your life.
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Pete Wright:
Welcome to How To Split a Toaster: A Divorce Podcast About Saving Your Relationships from TruStory FM. Today, we're cleaning out the toaster.
Seth Nelson:
Welcome to the show everybody. I'm Seth Nelson, and as always, I'm here with my good friend Pete Wright. Today on the show we're talking about stuff. No, not equitable distribution. We've done that already. Today we're talking about clutter, about organizing the stuff of your life that happens during and after your divorce. Julie Coraccio is an award-winning professional life and end of life organizer and professional declutterer, and the author of 15 books. Julie, welcome to the Toaster.
Julie Coraccio:
Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Pete Wright:
Julie, what Seth doesn't know, I don't know this, actually, he might know this, but we've never talked about it, is that I am obsessed with decluttering and organizing stuff. So this is my I watch for fun. I watch people organizing stuff in time-lapse on YouTube. Time-lapse organizing and decluttering is one of my favorite things. Every year in one of our online communities, we run a month-long decluttering expo. I am so excited for this conversation. It is irrational. It is absurd.
Seth Nelson:
Okay, I have a confession. I did not know that about you, Pete, but we actually have something in common.
Pete Wright:
What?
Seth Nelson:
I basically have a rule that if I don't use it for a year, I obviously don't need it and I get rid of it. Donate it, reuse it. This is really my wife's rule, though, she hasn't said it explicitly, but I know it's implicitly there. If I buy a pair of shoes, one pair has got to go.
Pete Wright:
Yep. One in, one out, baby.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, yeah. All right, Julie, so how did we do? Is the show over now?
Julie Coraccio:
There you go. You're all set. You've created two rules, you're good.
Pete Wright:
This is so great because we're talking about divorce and decluttering. And when we talk about stuff in the context of divorce, we're always talking about splitting it. We never talk about what the hell you do with it once you've got it. So that's what we're going to talk about today. Julie, how would you like to start? I have a bullet list that I'm very excited about checking things off, but I seed the floor to you. Where do you start this conversation when you're talking about divorce and decluttering?
Julie Coraccio:
Well, honestly, if it was me, I'd start it before marriage, but that's a whole other thing. But you have to start it immediately. I've worked with people who have, as the name of your podcast, about the toaster who have split everything and they're in the lawyer's office. This would drive me insane. I couldn't be able to do that. So in my opinion, have to have the start the conversation immediately because that's time, especially if it's a contentious divorce, it's going to show up in the stuff because whatever happened, and then, "I'm taking the toaster. I'm taking the vacuum cleaner," whatever it is, and it can get really awful.
Seth Nelson:
We've always talked about who gets what. What I think Julie's talking about is let's divide up less stuff because we're going to just get rid of some things and declutter. But I had a case many, many years ago where I was the mediator. Neither party was represented, and they started, "I want this, I want that for personal property." And they already had their list. They just didn't say who wanted what. It was the whole list. And literally, I'm just a simple guy, I gave the guy a blue highlighter. I gave the woman a pink highlighter. I said, "Highlight everything that you want to keep. If you don't highlight it, you don't care about it. The other side can have it."
They did that. I then came to them with one list. It had blue, which meant the husband wanted it, the wife did not. It had pink. The wife wanted it, the husband did not. It had yellow, they both wanted it. And it had green, and green was the longest part on the list. Remember they made the list of everything there and I had highlighted green, neither one of them wanted. They didn't highlight it, either one of them. And I said, "All that shit's mine."
Pete Wright:
There you go.
Seth Nelson:
But now I'm talking to Julie. I needed to declutter and just not take it. But literally if the husband would've said or the wife would've said, "I want X," the other would've said they wanted it, too. That's why didn't go back and forth. I said, "Just tell me what you want."
Julie Coraccio:
Yeah, I think that's a great solution. And to me, fascinating that green was the most, right? Because that tells us a lot, neither of them wanted it. We have so much stuff.
Seth Nelson:
But it's hard for people to declutter.
Julie Coraccio:
Absolutely.
Seth Nelson:
Why is it so hard?
Julie Coraccio:
I'd say one of the biggest places that people get messed up and make it difficult is with the memories, right? Well, I remember, I mean, even if there's a divorce, there can still be some happy memories there. But what we do is we place our memories on the object instead of remembering that they're in our heart and our head. Because if I let the object go, the memories are going to stay. So that's where a lot of people get tripped up. I think when people have clutter and disorganized, they honestly don't know how much they own. "Oh wow, we have three toasters." Who would've thought, right? "But I don't know where everything is." And then, "Okay, I can give some away. I just didn't know that I had that much." And then the big thing for a lot of people is overwhelm. Where do I start? We're getting divorced. It's been 20, 30 years we've been married. How are we going to get through all this stuff? So those are-
Seth Nelson:
Start in the junk drawer.
Julie Coraccio:
Well, yes, that's a possibility. I think it's a good idea to start in one room and you keep in that room and you don't move to another room until you're done because sometimes people do that. "Oh, I'll start work here, but then I'm going to go to another room and then I haven't really done anything. I'm just not doing that." And starting in one area, junk drawer is a great example. That's something that you can usually do pretty quickly and it's fairly easy and that can build your muscle and your confidence to do more.
Pete Wright:
Well, let's talk about the domino effect though, because I think that's one of the things when you're organizing and decluttering, when you run into things like the junk drawer and you find that first thing that you say, "Hey, you know what? I think that actually belongs in a different space, in a different room." And then you're in that other room and now you're finding a space for another object, and suddenly you're distracted from the original thing. So how do you encourage people to talk about that sort of systemization of decluttering and organizing as they're going through and getting rid of all their stuff in this plan?
Julie Coraccio:
Great question. So prior to doing that, you want to set up, I'm a fan of either boxes or strong bags. The last thing you want to do is have a crappy plastic bag and you fill it and then it explodes everywhere. So you create an area that's labeled keep, goes to a different place, donate, belongs to someone else that shouldn't even be here, recycle. Figure out where your categories are. And so you do that and you're like, okay, my setup, but I'm going to take what belongs in another room and put that pile and sort it later. I keep going until I've accomplished the little area and finish that before moving on. Does that make sense?
Pete Wright:
Yeah, for sure. For sure. And that gets to fighting that instinct to just declutter as you go, every space in your house that focus matters. Let's take a step back though to building this plan. When you start the divorce, when you think you're going to get divorced, starting to plan around your stuff. Because I think there are these two, I guess major categories, which are the physical possessions, the things that you want to actually potentially declutter. And you're talking about the emotional connection to objects, the things that you don't maybe need, but you like what they do to your brain and your body when you think about them and hold them. And then we have other categories of stuff like documents, like paper management, who's dealing with the files? How do you go about helping people who are struggling with managing the scope of this process, building something that they can work through? How do you encourage people to start?
Julie Coraccio:
So I am a fan of writing things down because if we write it down, we get it done. And you might put that on an app. It might be pen and paper for you. And so I'm a firm believer you should go through everything you own once a year. Now if it's been years since you've gone through something, the first time you do that, it's going to take time. But if you continue to do that once a year, it's a breeze. Seriously, you can get it done really quickly. So I would write all the rooms out, and then I would say, for instance, I'm in my office, so I would say bookcase one, bookcase two, built-ins, and then computer desk, filing cabinet.
And then I would go through each and I would start with the bookcase. And then when I was done with that, I'd go to the second bookcase and breaking it down into manageable steps. I talked about earlier, one of the reasons that people get stuck is they're overwhelmed. "Oh my gosh, I need to declutter my house." Of course, that's overwhelming. So that's why we want to create a plan and make a list and then that great satisfaction of crossing it off when we're done.
Seth Nelson:
But Julie, what happens when you're looking at something and you're like, "But I might need this."
Julie Coraccio:
I'm so glad you asked that because people, "I might need this someday." And then a decade's gone by and you've never used it. So this is what I say to my clients, can you trust that you'll get what you need when you need it? So for instance, maybe you let a tool go. My husband's really handy. Can you trust that maybe five years from you do need it, but can you borrow it? Is there a place where you can rent it? What are our options? It's not immediately gotten by another one, but the likelihood, yes, absolutely. Sometimes you might give something away and you do need it, but in my experience, it's a lot less than people anticipate. And that's just an excuse to not give it, oh, I might need it someday. Well, that's my excuse. So then I don't have to let it go.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, that's a huge one. I think that once you sort of open your mind to how easy it is to access whatever it is that you need, whatever tool, whatever, that you can get a lot on short-term pretty easily these days. And I sort of can't look at my closet right now because I'm applying all of this to my office closet and thinking, huh, that kid could be empty. And that leads to hidden spaces, the stuff that we throw into our closets and call it organized. Well, do you have a rule of thumb on managing hidden spaces like that?
Julie Coraccio:
Out of sight, out of mind, and that's, yeah, a definite thing that people do a lot. Again, I think it goes back to what I think is important is one, do everything annually, but have a maintenance plan. So if you know that I use a term like Superman, your clutter kryptonite. What's your clutter kryptonite? Mine's leopard print, right? Oh my gosh, leopard print shoes. All right, come on down. But I'm aware, what is my clutter kryptonite?
Pete Wright:
That ooo, actually, it's so weird.
Seth Nelson:
No, I'm laughing. And Pete, I'm going to fight back on you in a minute. I wasn't going to mention this, but in a minute I'm going to bring it on after we talk about, Julie, everyone has their little one thing that they, or two things that they know.
Julie Coraccio:
So I know that that's my... And that makeup sample. So if I'm going to go to the store, then I'm like, okay, you've got to pay attention. Don't just grab, oh, you can lose 10 pounds and get rid of wrinkles. Give it to me. Okay, let's come on. Are you really going to use it?
Seth Nelson:
Self-awareness there.
Julie Coraccio:
Self-awareness, 1,000%. And then also to have a maintenance plan. If your closet is where you get stuck, for women especially, closets really tend to be one of those areas that are really difficult. So then that's going to need a little more attention, and it's about discernment. So maybe you need to hire someone, but maybe you need bring your BFF over to help you. To have someone that's really important and who's not emotionally attached to be able to ask you questions. For instance, with the closet tags on it, you've never worn it. Okay, well, how about if we give it to the battered women's shelter, right?
Because there's someone who might've left in the middle of the night with just the clothes on their backs, and that's someone who's going to need it and get good use out of it. That's something that I try to. And a little note with kids, too. If you have your kids, sometimes when kids struggles to release things, pick a charity or we're going to give that blanket to the animal shelter and it's going to help the cats and the dogs. Oh, okay, so it's going to go to a good home. I can let it go.
Seth Nelson:
And the other thing I did with my son when we were getting rid of stuff, I would say, "You can keep five of these things." So then he prioritized them. Of course, then I had to negotiate, okay, it's seven, but it wasn't, "Do you want to keep this one? Yes? No?" Because it's always yes. And to your point, it was like, oh my God, my friend gave that to me for my fourth birthday, whatever the case may be. But when you said you're only allowed to keep so many, then they started prioritizing.
Julie Coraccio:
That's great. And it's important start them young, right? Because then that helps them understand... Because if we keep everything, if everything has value, then nothing does. And so that's teaching them discernment, and what's important. And I love that you ask your kids that, because a lot of times you might think, oh, they want to save this clay pot that they made, and they have zero emotional attachment, but something else is more important to them.
Seth Nelson:
Exactly. So I will tell you, I know one of my, I'm thinking if I have more than one bags, like backpacks, suitcases, whatever.
Pete Wright:
Oh.
Seth Nelson:
That's one of mine, Pete, I'm giving you that. But here's the thing about decluttering that I think is really important. You can put bags in bags so it doesn't look cluttered, but it might be.
Julie Coraccio:
And that's okay. You know what? And I'm not militant, like you have to get rid of everything. But if you say to me, oh, bags and an album collection and golf shirts and sports equipment, do you know what I mean? And everything's a collection, then I'm like, okay, let's take a moment here.
Seth Nelson:
That's not a collection, that's called hoarding. There's a difference.
Julie Coraccio:
Well, no. You can collect things and not be a hoarder. And it can be as someone with beer steins recently, like, wow, there's a lot of beer steins. And guess what? We're downsizing. We're not going to be able to keep all the beer steins. So what are we going to go through the collection that we really like? Have your bags. But again, I'm going to say go through them every year or go through them every two years.
Seth Nelson:
Here's a hypothetical.
Julie Coraccio:
Okay.
Pete Wright:
Spoiler, it's not a hypothetical.
Seth Nelson:
What happens if someone keeps on to things and they're cluttering, but they're disguising it as artwork? So let me just give you an example. If someone had a bunch of old electronics and they put them on their wall. Look at the back or Pete's.
Pete Wright:
That's uncool, man. That's uncool.
Seth Nelson:
Is that cluttering? Is that art?
Julie Coraccio:
You know what? I don't think it looks clutter, honestly, from what I see. He's created something.
Seth Nelson:
Bless you.
Julie Coraccio:
For me, it's a tad bit visually overwhelming. I'm super visual. Not lies. It's a little overwhelming for me, but I don't think... If he enjoys it and it brings some joy... Now, if every square part was covered, again, if it's his office, who has to be in there.
Pete Wright:
My space is a representation of my personality. And I might be a little too much for other people, too. I get that. I recognize that. That's fine.
Seth Nelson:
No, but I think it's important distinction though, because that's why I was saying is that is I actually think it's really cool that Pete has all that stuff on his wall. It's not what I would like, but I know Pete and it does represent him, and so that makes sense to me. I'm just really pulling your chain there. But I think to your point, Julie, when you have beer steins or whatever, and it just takes over everything.
Julie Coraccio:
And remember, you have to maintain all this stuff. You have to dust it, and you have to say, "Well, I hire a cleaner," but then you're going to have to pay to have all that stuff dusted. And when I talk about decluttering, it's more than just the physical stuff. And so they've done studies. If you have a messy desk, people don't trust you as much. You might be passed over for a promotion. So all the stuff in your space is affecting you mentally, emotionally, on all levels.
Seth Nelson:
I'm glad you mentioned that because that was going to be my next question. I am physically uncomfortable if I am in a house that has a lot of stuff. I might like the person immensely, but when there is little tchotchkes everywhere, it's just fucking overloading on me. But if I'm in a house where it's like minimalist and the counters are clean and there's not much on there... One friend of mine, I went in there, I'm like, "Oh my God, I love your house. And the way you've decorated it." They started laughing because they said, "My mother comes over and says, 'You can't afford furniture?'" Because there was so few spaces, but it just felt so good to me.
Julie Coraccio:
Well, everything's energy. And so all this stuff is taking up, and they talk about in feng shui, if I had just gotten divorced, I would want all new things. I wouldn't want the stuff, right, because it has the energy of that relationship. And I'd want minimal stuff to bring in, whether it's a new job, a new relationship into your life. If you have clutter, that's that stuck stagnant energy. You can't welcome in new experiences.
Seth Nelson:
But what I find, Julie, is in the divorce process is one, people feel like something is empty anyway, and then if they don't have much stuff, it's even more empty. And I think they're battling that.
Julie Coraccio:
But what are you trying to fill? When you collect, in feng shui, they talk about this, what you collect reflects what you believe you're missing in your life. So I would be really interested, like you get divorced, what is it that you've started to collect? Okay, you could say love, whatever. But I think also you can be an archeologist and dig a little deeper in what's going on here. You can't expect someone else to fulfill your needs. You have to do that on your own. And when you are happy and whole, then you can bring that into your life. So it's about self-examination and knowing yourself.
Seth Nelson:
And I will tell you from the family law attorney, divorce attorney perspective, we hate talking about personal property.
Julie Coraccio:
Oh, really? Interesting. Okay.
Seth Nelson:
We hate it because ultimately we're here trying to help people. And when they're dividing up their personal items... And judges hate it too, because it takes up judicial resources. And even in court, when you're arguing in Florida, check your local jurisdiction, it says the sentimental value is a value that can't be put a price on it. But when a judge is deciding who should get the item, they can do that. So judges hate it. I mean, they will make quick decisions like that. Lawyers hate it because you're paying me all this money to divide up stuff where you can just go buy it.
It's always the very last thing to talk about in a settlement agreement. It's always the last thing, and we have nothing left to trade, and you're dividing up $3 million worth of real estate in 401Ks and IRAs and brokerage accounts and kids college funds. And we did a parenting plan that was complex because someone traveled, but they want to have 50-50. We're doing all this stuff. We make all these trades, and then it comes down to the toaster and we have nothing left to trade and it blows up the whole deal.
Pete Wright:
Derails everything.
Seth Nelson:
So do it early, don't wait.
Julie Coraccio:
Do it early and don't become attached. It's just stuff, right? What did I talk about earlier? Can you trust that you'll get that toaster after the divorce? Can you let it go? And decluttering is about letting go, whatever. It's relationship, health clutter. It's letting go.
Pete Wright:
I feel like this is going to be my model. I'm going to look at my house. I'm going to walk through my house, and I'm going to make a list of the stuff that I would want to grab if my house was on fire. And then everything else really could go. What is the most important? Okay, it's fair. There might be a tier two of stuff that I'd like to keep when-
Seth Nelson:
The fire is only in the kitchen.
Pete Wright:
Fire's in the kitchen. But there is so much stuff that I just feel like if I really went and looked at it with this kind of critical eye, I could let go of it before I go into a divorce process. And leave the stuff that I would want to take in a fire and negotiate over that, if it's that important. If I can't figure it out on my own, take the blue and the pink and the green highlighters, do it. I think my green list could be pretty long.
Julie Coraccio:
And you have to pay to move things. I love the fire, give that example. Or would you pay to move that?
Pete Wright:
Yeah, right. So let's go back to the digital decluttering. Do you do work on digital decluttering with folks, too?
Julie Coraccio:
Yes. Yes.
Pete Wright:
Because my hunch is given the fact that there is no effective maximum space for digital stuff, that that's even harder to say, "I need to clean off some hard drives. I need to part with the stuff that I am never going to look at again." Or how do you approach digital decluttering?
Julie Coraccio:
Again, kind of the same thing. I want people to think, what is this costing you? And it can be like, oh, because all these electronics, it's great that you've made it into wall art, but how much space is this taking up? And again, even if we're not aware of it, it's like a drip, drip, drip at the back of our mind. I have all this stuff. And again, opening up space, what is it that you want to create in your life? If you have all that clutter, it prevents you from doing it. And again, it's about discernment and going, do you really need to keep those blurry photos, unflattering photos? Why are you holding onto that?
Seth Nelson:
You've touched on the topic, you both did, that I was going to mention. So one, photos is a big deal in divorce.
Julie Coraccio:
Oh, okay.
Seth Nelson:
So one thing I always recommend is immediately just make a second copy. And if it is an actual photo, take a good photo of the photo. So now you have it on your phone, and it's digitally done. So those are the type of things that also get tripped up where people say, okay, you have to pay to get them copied, and then you have to return and they don't trust each other, and then they're getting the third party to do it. So handle those photos early. But about digital decluttering, my mom kept everything, and I think she came by it naturally. She grew up with parents in the depression, and that's a huge emotional, maybe I will not be able to get this 10 years from now. I'm holding onto it now.
And when her father passed and her mom passed when she was young, and then my uncle passed, she got all of it. And there was amazing things, but there was so much and so overwhelming that it was getting dirty or dusty or moldy, and so I'm not going to be able to go through it anyway in one day. And she passed two years ago, but before that she was going through and scanning all of these documents. And she goes, "Look at how much progress I'm making." And me being the asshole son said, "Oh my god, mom, that's amazing. So when you pass, I can just hit delete and not have to call it trash removal." And she laughed. But the problem I had with it is there was so many letters, there was so much stuff. I wasn't going to have time to go through it. So what was I supposed to do with it?
Julie Coraccio:
I have a couple thoughts. First, the young generations don't want your stuff. So for people who are listening, give your loved ones peace of mind that they're not stuck with having to go through everything. That's where discernment comes in. First of all, what's more important for me? Peace of mind? Getting money? My time? That's where you have to start or that's where I suggest starting because then that's going to help you determine your decisions. You're like, I don't want to go through 500 letters. You know what? I'm going to give myself two hours to go through these letters and maybe I'll pick a few that I can get in a frame or a shadow box or something that's important. So instead of having all the letters, just have a few.
Seth Nelson:
I like that, Julie, just I like that where you just say, "There's a thousand letters here. I'm going to spend two hours. I'm going to flip through and I might miss the key letters. I don't have time to go through a thousand." I like that timeframe aspect of it.
Julie Coraccio:
Yeah, I think that that's really important. Well, one thing for photos that I've done is to get rid of... We have a digital frame, which I love. We travel a lot, so they're all the travel pictures and they sit there, and that's something that I really like. But again, it's with the letters and everything, it goes back to what's most important. And then it's about making a decision. And then you just have to say, "You know what? I'm going to trust that I'll get what I need. I'm going to trust that I have kept what's most important to me." Don't make yourself crazy. Oh my God, I didn't get to a thousand letters. You know what? I saved 10 that I think were really good after this two hours. It's good. I'm going to trust.
Seth Nelson:
Right, and my kid's going to go through the 10 and save two.
Julie Coraccio:
Probably, probably.
Pete Wright:
Well, and it's made even more challenging when your photo library contains 2, 5, 10, 50 different shots of essentially the same thing because we all have cell phones and we all take pictures. A lot of pictures every time we push the shutter. And so making the conscious effort as you create those memories to save just the most special ones is really important. I do want to recommend one tool that I love. In my experience, it is the best photo scanner for your phone. It's called PhotoScan. It's the scanner by Google Photos, and it allows you to take really great high resolution scans with your phone through stitching together multiple different angles so it removes glare. That's the most special thing about this elapse.
So we'll put it in the show notes. If you've never played with PhotoScan, it's a really, really great way to do it. Of course, splitting your, or duplicating your photo library, making sure you have a separate hard disc that you can put all these documents on. I wonder, I guess the less contentious the divorce, the easier it is to say this stuff. Maybe you sit down before you split this and say, "Hey, what do you want to keep? What do I want to keep? What files are yours? What files are mine?" Rather than making straight dupes, right, because then you both have to go through all of the junk on your hard drives.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. I'm going to disagree with that one, Pete.
Pete Wright:
What do you think?
Seth Nelson:
Well, because it's contentious, it's so much easier from a divorce perspective just make a copy. If you want to go through it later, go through it later. I just don't want to argue about it. And there's so many things that's such a trigger for people. The Harry Met Sally wagon wheel, coffee table-
Pete Wright:
The wagon wheel coffee table.
Seth Nelson:
It's just like a trigger, and it's just so stupid to me from a legal perspective, it's stupid. From the emotional perspective, I get it. You're going through emotional divorce, you're going through a legal divorce, but anything is just a landmine. So that's why I would say just make duplicates and go through it later.
Pete Wright:
At some point, I mean, is there anything we've left out? We didn't talk too deeply about paper, and I think that's because maybe we're using less of it, but I don't know. I've got a bunch of file cabinets I haven't opened in 15 years.
Julie Coraccio:
I don't think we are. I think they thought the computer would change that, but it's been my experience that it hasn't.
Pete Wright:
So how do you approach paper decluttering? Same way you approach stuff, boxes and bins?
Julie Coraccio:
Well, I want to share resource first because I see a lot of filing cabinets with this. It's called manuals online. And so a lot of people have these manual, I got a fan, I got to keep the manual for it. You're going to be able to find 99.99% of your manuals. And because those take up so much physical space, recycle the manual and then find it online if you ever need it. 80-20 rule with paper's really important. A lot of the stuff that people are keeping, they don't need to. And that's again, something, when's the last time that you went through your filing? And it's really important to not be, in my opinion, super structured. And you're filing, I have an insurance file. It'll take me 10 seconds to flip through it. Auto health, all that stuff's in there. I don't want to have auto insurance, health insurance. That's just more, it's easier. Let's just have an insurance file.
Seth Nelson:
What's this 80-20 rule on this? I didn't understand that.
Julie Coraccio:
Oh, so we don't use 80% of the stuff we have. We only use 20% of the things that we own.
Seth Nelson:
Got it.So focus on that 20.
Julie Coraccio:
And I see that a lot with paper for sure.
Pete Wright:
Again, because of the curse of space, we have office, we put file cabinets in office. We keep everything.
Julie Coraccio:
And I mean, scanning is an option for certain things. I finally like, oh, I've got to scan. I need to get new glasses. So let's scan the prescription so we have it, and then I'm done. And then when it's the new glass prescription, I'll delete the old one.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. What I found helpful for me on important documents, I actually just take a picture of them and I have a favorite on my phone.
Julie Coraccio:
There you go. Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Literally, I need your insurance card. Photos, favorites. Here it is.
Pete Wright:
My family, we use the important documents section in one password, keep them secure and encrypted, and I have a tag in one password that's called hashtag wallet. And I know that syncs to my devices, it syncs to my watch. If I need any of the scans of any of those documents, passports, licenses, insurance, they're all right in one place, and we all know together where they are.
Seth Nelson:
We should do one password in the show notes too, Pete. That's really a good idea.
Julie Coraccio:
Good resource. Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
But I like that manuals online because the other thing about the manuals online, Julie, it's searchable.
Julie Coraccio:
Yes, yes.
Seth Nelson:
You can actually get to it quicker than flipping through.
Pete Wright:
Not only is it searchable for the thing that you want, you'll probably find the manual of the thing faster than if you go try to find it in your house at the bottom of your junk drawer. But yeah, searching for specific content. And I would say largely for us, I think YouTube has replaced all of our need for manuals. If I need to learn how to decalcify my coffee maker, I can find that in 15 seconds on YouTube. Somebody's actually doing it for me. So it's super useful stuff. Let's talk just a little bit more about the, as we get to some questions about the emotional breakups. You have a spouse who has way too much stuff that is affecting your marriage. How do you approach a couple like this where somebody else may be exhibiting hoarding techniques or hoarding issues?
Julie Coraccio:
Well, I want to say, first of all, so if you are a hoarder, you need to work with someone who's qualified. I mean, you've got some mental health issues going on with that. But just in what I'd call everyday basic marriages, a lot of times, one, the clutter and one's to the organized. So it's a common problem. So what I first tell people is let's start in the present moment. I don't care what happened in the past. We are a team. We're working together. It's not your mortal enemy. And a lot of times you've got to have a little bit of give on each side. If you're like Martha Stewart, I'm not like Martha Stewart. That would drive me nuts if my husband did that.
But I'd be like, I'd never want to pick up anything because I couldn't live up to that standard. So maybe someone needs to relax and someone needs to pick it up. So say that a spouse reads a lot, maybe books or magazines, and they're like, "Oh my God, the bedrooms of disaster. Look at all these books. Then let's just get a pretty basket and we can throw all the reading materials in it. Now you're going to have to let it go, that it's not alphabetized and super neat, but it's contained and it's not clutter, and you can rifle through and find what you need instead of making it super strict." So it's about finding that balance.
Seth Nelson:
That's a really good point about books. The other thing is they just get so dusty. And I laugh with you, Pete, but my parents had books forever, and they were so dusty as they got older. My father recently moved to an assisted living facility. I think his health is better because we don't have the dusty books.
Julie Coraccio:
I mean, I'm glad you brought that up. But that's the other thing about clutter. It can not only dust, but rodents, and it's filth and it can attract all that gross stuff.
Pete Wright:
I love books. I love books. I never found myself developing the emotional attachment to the feel and the smell of the paper books. And so it was a very easy thing for me to migrate to digital books and read on an e-reader or my whatever. I read on my phone, I read on my iPad, I read wherever. But making that shift took an enormous cognitive load out of my brain, not thinking about where to put them, how to organize them. It was incredibly liberating.
Same thing with media. I used to have thousand CDs, hundreds of DVDs. I'm an entertainment guy. I just love my media and I got rid of all of those. And I captured them all digitally. And now I have a robust library I can access anywhere without the cognitive load, the friction of organizing collections that ultimately weren't the important part. The artifact wasn't important. It was the experience that I get when I use those things. If there's another way I can use them without that load, so much the better.
Seth Nelson:
Called Netflix.
Pete Wright:
Right, right. It's-
Seth Nelson:
Hulu. Peacock.
Pete Wright:
I get very frustrated because there are challenges right now when you get these major streamers who are pulling the stuff that I love off of their service. I get very frustrated by that. Own your media if you can. I do still purchase my digital media when there are movies that are really important to me, but curse of riches right now. Getting rid of stuff takes a long time.
Julie Coraccio:
It depends on your frame of mind.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, right. I guess that's true.
Julie Coraccio:
You have to look at everything. You have to have a memory about it. That's going to take a long time with the people. Okay, just go.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, I guess that's true. Do you help folks build a plan? When we started talking, you talked about focus on one room, one place. Do you have a routine that you recommend for people to get into it without actually dropping the habit of decluttering when they're trying to make a big push?
Julie Coraccio:
It goes back to what is most important to you. You can't have the beer steins and the albums and whatever, keeping what's most important. And again, what's most important is the time. Do you need the cash? And you're like, you know what? I got to go through to see what I can sell. Do I want peace of mind? Just let it go.
Seth Nelson:
I advocate you sell everything and pay your lawyer.
Pete Wright:
Oh, Seth, you're still here.
Seth Nelson:
Right, of course. But when you're talking about decluttering, sometimes it's forced because you lived in a big house and now you're getting divorced and you're moving to a smaller space.
Julie Coraccio:
Yes, downsizing. Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
So talk to us about creating your own new space. So first off, I think, and I've read studies on this or articles too, that it's very interesting what people buy because when they set up their new space, boy, it isn't anything like their old space because they don't have to share. So one thing is you are getting rid of a bunch of stuff that you didn't want anyway, because all the stuff that the spouse had that you didn't like. So what do you do when you're setting up new space? Can you talk us through that?
Julie Coraccio:
Sure. Well, so one thing you are going to want to really... If you're keeping some of the furniture, I'm saying if you know you're not letting everything go, if I'm going from a 4,000 square foot house to 1500 square foot apartment, not everything's going to fit. So depending, what I think is really important is coming up with a style. And then if you have your furniture, placing your furniture first. And if you're moving into a condo, I can let the lawnmower go because they're going to have someone come and cut the grass. So knowing again, other things that you can let go, I would ask myself for each room, my room, my office, I'm here is painted royal purple. I love it. I wouldn't have that anywhere in the house, but it inspires me.
And so what do I want to do when I'm in my office? I want to be inspired. I need to make money. I need to be creative. And so I like doing that for each room. And I'm a very visual person, so I like to make little boards. This is kind of, oh, you know what? This kind, I don't even know what my style be like I'm a modernist or old school or antique person. And then, okay, this is the kind of style I want. This is how I want the room to feel. And then go from there. And I think for me, color's so important. And I think before we moved back in, I'm having to sell house. I'm like, oh, we have to agreeable gray or beige. I don't want any of that. I want color. I think that you have the opportunity.
Seth Nelson:
Julie, beige is my favorite color. I mean, that just hit me in the hallway.
Julie Coraccio:
I'm sorry. I hope that you can recover from that.
Seth Nelson:
It's not, but I do like some gray, I'll be honest about that one.
Julie Coraccio:
Agreeable gray, I get it. But if I have the opportunity for me, then color. So what is it? Do you want inspire? How do you mean? And color something that can be fun. And it's yours now. You are the one that gets to make the decision, right? If you had to, okay, I'm going to go with my spouse on this one. And do that and have your style and create boards and have fun with it.
Seth Nelson:
Is there a trick to not decluttering?
Julie Coraccio:
Oh, yeah. I mean, I have mentioned going through everything every year, and you have a maintenance plan. At the end of week, put all your files away in your office. At the end of the week, do a little decluttering, right? If you do that, it's going to take five or 10 minutes. But if you let time go on and on, and like you mentioned, someone mentions your wife with the shoes, if you buy one that you have to let one go, right? I mean, that's a great thing. I mean, again, I wouldn't want to fall in the trap of being super strict because sometimes, oh, but you know what? There really aren't a pair of shoes that I want to let go of right now. Then getting that frustration.
You know what, not this time but the next time, but being flexible with your rules, but setting something up like that, what is my clutter kryptonite? If I'm bringing all this, maybe I go on a shopping spree and buy 10 things, and maybe I don't let 10 go, but at least I let five go, and I'm going to examine what I own every year. And again, building those muscles and having some regular routine around it.
Seth Nelson:
And I will tell you, I think donating things is amazing. The firm in NLG here, just last week, we spent some time on the weekend, a group of us, not everybody, but we went and literally sorted through clothes that were donated to a local charity.
Julie Coraccio:
Nice.
Seth Nelson:
One of the things the guy said was, "Look, double check these to make sure that they are worthy to wear. Not holes or dirty or smelly or any of that stuff." And I said, "What do you do with the stuff that we just have to get rid of it?" He goes, "We put it in that big trailer, and they actually sell it. Somebody comes and buys it, and it ultimately gets recycled."
Julie Coraccio:
That's great.
Seth Nelson:
It was really kind of an eye-opening experience. And I mean, literally there was just car after car arriving on a Saturday, and we were busy the whole time just sorting, sorting, sorting.
Julie Coraccio:
I want to mention something about that that you brought up. In California, if you donate to a charity, you might be costing them money because if they can't recycle it, they have to pay a landfill fee. And so that's something that people don't think about. And what I would say, if you're not going to give it to your friend or your family member, don't dump it on a charity. Look, I'm all about being green as much as possible. Is it stain? Is it holy? Okay, then maybe turn it into a rag or send it to the garbage because its life is over.
Seth Nelson:
That's a good point.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, that's a good point. I know we have out here, we have a responsible recycling third party that actually every two weeks they'll take a bag of fabrics. So you have shirts that you want to give, and they do the sorting and donating where appropriate, but they have a whole recycling process. But again, that's here. And I know sometimes neighborhood to neighborhood, those options can be different.
Julie Coraccio:
Yeah, absolutely.
Seth Nelson:
Oh, there's a building in downtown Tampa that stopped, a residential building that stopped recycling because people weren't doing it properly. And it cost the building so much financially that they're like, we just can't do this.
Pete Wright:
You just have to check your local recycling jurisdiction.
Seth Nelson:
Oh, ding, ding, ding. Ring the bell. You scored on that one, Pete. Nice job.
Pete Wright:
Andy gets all the credit. He's in there typing the... He made it purple and italic. Just one of you make this comment. He's in the background.
Seth Nelson:
I can't believe you gave Andy the credit. I was totally going to give it all to you on that one.
Pete Wright:
Well, this, I mean, it's just really fascinating. One more thing about the clothes. I'm a big fan of the hanger trick. I don't know where I learned it, but I'm one of those people where I turn all my hangers backwards, and when I wear something, I turn it back around, I turn that hanger back around, and then at the end of six months, anything I see where the hanger's still backward I know I'm not wearing that.
Seth Nelson:
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Back up. I've never heard of this trick.
Pete Wright:
Seriously?
Seth Nelson:
I'm serious.
Julie Coraccio:
Yeah, that's surprising.
Pete Wright:
Oh yeah. It's a staple. So you go, you take your hangers, right, and you turn them all backwards so the hanger part comes out. That's not how you normally do that. I could talk about it more if you need. And then when you pull the shirt or the pants out of the closet, just that first time you take the hanger and you turn it back around, right? So when you're done wearing that thing, it goes back on normally. At the end of some period, you get to decide if it's seasonal, if it's a year, whatever, you're going to have some hangers that are still facing the wrong way. And you'll know you don't wear those clothes anymore. You can dump them.
Seth Nelson:
Wow, I've never heard of that.
Pete Wright:
You can do the same thing with shoes. You can turn your shoes upside down in the shelf. You can put your T-shirts upside down in the shelf, and when you put it back, you know that you put it back right side up, that means you wore it. But if you didn't, you'll still see any of the T-shirts that are still upside down in your drawer. Boom. Bob's your uncle. You're an American hero.
Seth Nelson:
I love it. That's a great idea. I've literally never heard of this.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, fancy.
Seth Nelson:
Julie's looking at me like, you're an idiot. Everyone's heard of this.
Julie Coraccio:
No, you just said that you liked organizing, decluttering.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. And I was thinking through my closet. I know I'm pretty good at what I wear and what I don't wear. So I'm not too concerned about that with me, but I think it's a great idea.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, it's a great idea. It has really worked for me, for sure. Love it. So, okay, look at all the tips we've give. This is not a divorce, Joe. What are we doing? We should hang it up and just do organizing talk.
Seth Nelson:
No, Julie's got us beat on that.
Pete Wright:
I know, Julie definitely has a beat on that. So Julie, before, as we get to wrapping up here, tell us all the stuff you're doing. Where would you like to send people to learn more about you?
Julie Coraccio:
I'd love for them to go to reawakenyourbrilliance.com. I've got affirmations, I've got journal prompts. I have 15 books. I have video and audio classes if you're a DIYer. And if you want to work together, technology's great. And we can do that. And if you can sign up for my free newsletter and you get 10 free tips to declutter your life right now, so I'm giving you a take action. Bam, you can do something.
Pete Wright:
Outstanding. All right. Links in the show notes and Clear Your Clutter Inside and Out, right?
Julie Coraccio:
Yep. Podcast. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
You got like 500 episodes.
Julie Coraccio:
Yeah, a decade.
Pete Wright:
Outstanding.
Seth Nelson:
Okay, so I have to ask a serious question then.
Julie Coraccio:
Sure.
Seth Nelson:
When do you start kind of clearing out the old episodes? Is that too much clutter on your 500 out there?
Julie Coraccio:
Well, I'll tell you a little be the first to know, I'm ending the podcast this month. It's been a decade. It's time to do something new, a new project. So I'm going to leave it up because that's kind of free advertising, right? Because it's pretty awesome. I know I'm biased, but it's done pretty well. And so they'll have a whole... And it's my way also of giving back because the podcast is free. So if you can't rub two nickels together, you at least can get started.
Pete Wright:
Absolutely. Well, the link will be in the show notes. It is a fantastic monument to your organizing expertise, so thank you, Julie. And thanks for hanging out with us. We've got our feedback link in the show notes, and we encourage people to send us a note whenever you have any questions. And if you have any specific questions or tips, I hope, Julie, we can send them your way and we can answer them on a future show. That would be fantastic.
Julie Coraccio:
Absolutely.
Pete Wright:
All right, this was great. Thank you everybody for downloading and listening to the show. We appreciate your time and your attention. On behalf of Julie Coraccio and Seth Nelson, America's favorite divorce attorney, I'm Pete Wright. We'll catch you back here next week on How to Split a Toaster: A Divorce Podcast About Saving Your Relationships.
Outro:
Seth Nelson is an attorney with NLG Divorce and Family Law with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, how to split a toaster is not intended to, nor is it providing legal advice. Every situation is different. If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney or employee of NLG Divorce and Family Law. Seth Nelson is licensed to practice law in Florida.
