Forgiveness and Brighter Futures After Divorce with Twyla M. Marks
What does it mean to forgive after your divorce? You can count many reasons to hold a grudge; you have all the reasons that led you to divorce in the first place, but divorce isn’t normally a process that naturally cultivates calm and understanding.So, how do you find peace in the process? Our guest today is Twyla M. Marks, host of “Divorce Talk with Twyla” and survivor of her own toxic divorce. She shares her journey to getting her HAPPY back, finding the right balance for her kids and her former spouse, and the importance of self-care after divorce.
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Pete Wright:
Welcome to How to Split a Toaster, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships from TruStory FM. Today, your toaster is getting its happy back.
Seth Nelson:
Welcome to show everyone. I'm Seth Nelson, and I'm here as always with my good friend, Pete Wright. Today on the show, what does it mean to forgive after your divorce? You can probably count many reasons to hold that grudge. You have all the reasons that led you to the divorce in the first place, plus the divorce process, isn't normally a process that's naturally cultivating, calm and understanding either. So how do you find peace in the process? Our guest today is Twyla M. Marks, host of Divorce talk with Twyla, and survivor of her own toxic divorce. We like to just call her coach though. Coach, welcome to the toaster.
Twyla M. Marks:
Thank you so much, Seth and Pete for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Excited about the show.
Pete Wright:
You say in your own bio that you are a survivor of a toxic divorce. And so I thought it might be good to just start right there. You are in a toxic divorce, you end your toxic divorce. How do you start rebuilding and find space to forgive?
Twyla M. Marks:
I was married for 10 years, we had a blended family. I initiated the divorce for several different reasons and moved on, had two minor children. My daughter was from a previous relationship and he and I had a son together. I was at my lowest point, didn't have a job, just knew I needed out. I was very miserable, very unhappy. And once that process started, I'd sought a legal counsel, hired an attorney. And then, you know what, like a lot of us do that have experienced divorce and clients that I speak with all the time, we blame ourselves, right?
Twyla M. Marks:
We blame ourselves. We feel like we are a failure. And we just sometimes don't really know how to move on. And talking about forgiveness, forgiveness is not an overnight process. It takes time, it takes some self evaluation. And you know what? You forgive yourself, but then you have others to forgive, right? Because in my situation, my ex-husband did some things where I thought I'd never forgive him at all, but you know what? I knew I needed to do that. One being, we had a child together. I can't hate this man for the rest of my life, right? We're going to have to co-parent here.
Twyla M. Marks:
So, my story was kind of different as far as the forgiveness, it was easy to forgive him because he asked me about two and a half to three years later, he asked for my forgiveness. Meaning he just literally came to me and apologized and just asked me. I know that doesn't happen all the time. And so, and it was from a genuine, sincere place for him. And I didn't answer him right away. I prayed, I'm a Christian woman. I prayed about it. And I said, okay, I have to do this.
Twyla M. Marks:
And from that point on our relationship, no we weren't BFFs, we didn't go to dinner every Friday night or anything of that nature. But from that point on the decision that he made to ask for my forgiveness as well as me actually forgiving him, our relationship changed tremendously. And we were able to co-parent our son together.
Pete Wright:
Seth, what's your take on forgiveness in the divorce process? My hunch is after hearing Twyla talk about this that, if you are mired in the grudge you're going to have a hell of a time getting to the other side of a divorce.
Seth Nelson:
Oh, absolutely. And I think the first thing that I talk to clients about is when you're holding on to the hate, that is allowing that person that you're hating so much control your thoughts, your actions. Why are you going to give them that control? There's a reason you're divorced, there's a reason you no longer together. There's a reason you think you're better off walking this earth without that person by your side. Let them go. And the question is, how do you let them go? Even when you have to deal with them in parenting, and one of the ways that I like to tell people is, lower your expectations. The zebra doesn't change their stripes.
Seth Nelson:
They are going to keep acting this way after divorce, expect that they are going to be mean, cruel, vindictive. Say things that aren't true, try to push your buttons. They're your buttons, don't let them push them. Unplug them, unwire them, do what you need to do but don't let that person control you. When you realize it's about how you choose to respond, it helps you get freed up. And I think what coach was saying here is that hey, it was even hard for her when he came and asked for forgiveness.
Seth Nelson:
That wasn't expected, that totally changed how she responded to such a degree. And coach, I'm not trying to say anything about your faith. You chose to pray on that.
Twyla M. Marks:
Right.
Seth Nelson:
Other people might have chose to meditate. Other people might have been so floor to be like no, what's he up to? Right?
Twyla M. Marks:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Like there's a lot of ways that... But when it's a totally different approach that someone comes to you with when your expectations are one and it's different, that then also changes how you respond, right? But those are very conscious choices that you make. Whether you prey on it, whether you think on it, whether you go to counseling, whether you talk to your friends over a glass of wine, whatever you do. I think that's the hardest thing to understand is the hate is all controllable within you, not what the other person is doing. And that's a hard pill to swallow because it's easy to deflect and just blame someone else.
Pete Wright:
I go back and forth on this. There's one side which is the conscious choice side. And that is a real gift, it sounds like your former spouse coming to you and saying, forgive me, I need forgiveness. And I think probably, having the insight that I need forgiveness is a sign that I've grown in some way, shape or form. And the other side is, is it possible for time to do what it does? Is it possible for time to allow you to move sufficiently to the other side of the event of your divorce, of your separation, of your grief in losing someone so close to you at one point, to be able to move on with your life.
Twyla M. Marks:
You're right. They say time heals all wounds. And if he would've came to me two weeks after per se, I filed a divorce, there's been no way, no way. Because there were emotions so involved. So I mean, he waited almost three years. And during that time span we were in and out of the court, it was just a lot going on.
Seth Nelson:
All also Pete, I don't believe time heals all wounds.
Pete Wright:
That's a controversial position, Seth Nelson.
Twyla M. Marks:
Yes, Seth. Well, I agree. You have to choose if you're going to move on. It is a decision.
Seth Nelson:
I've had cases go on for years.
Twyla M. Marks:
Wow.
Seth Nelson:
And you've seen it in and we've talked about it with some of our friends Pete that, couples get divorced when they have young children and it is 20 years later and they're arguing about weddings and family events and they can't both be invited at the same time. So, it doesn't heal all wounds. You have to take an active role in the healing and getting the tools to do that whether it's with a life coach, a divorce coach, a mental health counselor, getting exercise. Looking at things a different way. I think everyone has to do their own work. It takes two, it takes two, right?
Seth Nelson:
The other person could be such a jerk that even if you're like it's okay, [inaudible 00:08:25] back. It might make the people around you uncomfortable, right? Pete, kind of like you're that uncle at at Thanksgiving, like there's always the guy at the table. I was going to blame myself [crosstalk 00:08:38] but instead I blame you?
Pete Wright:
What are you doing?
Seth Nelson:
There's always people doing stuff that makes things uncomfortable and then they don't get invited.
Pete Wright:
That's right.
Seth Nelson:
That's all I'm saying.
Pete Wright:
And I think that pivot is a good one. Because we would talk about the former spouse coming to you and asking for forgiveness. The other side of that discussion to me is at what point are you able to forgive yourself for your contribution for taking some sort of a responsibility? And does that help you move past it? Does that help you talk about your past marriage with greater authenticity and authority? Once you're able to say, yeah, I did this thing. My part of it was X, Y, Z. How do you open that dialogue with yourself?
Twyla M. Marks:
I believe that once you do forgive and sincerely move on and your life gets better, there's light at the end of the tunnel. It's like a light bulb goes off, there's sunshine now and you can move forward in a positive light. And for me, in my experience, I did, my kids and I we did. It was better. It took a load off our shoulders, especially when my ex-husband at the time and we would be in the same place. My son played football and prior to the forgiveness, I sat as far away as possible from him.
Twyla M. Marks:
Sometimes on the opposing team side just to be away from him and out of his presence. Because I just did not want to be near him. And so yeah, things got better. We were able to discuss college plans and things of that nature like co-parents should.
Seth Nelson:
And think about that a little bit though Pete, from a kid's perspective, what a difference in that kid's life when his parents now can sit next to each other if they're at an event as opposed to literally on the opposite side of a field.
Pete Wright:
I was going to say, that's like not even a metaphor anymore, you're literally on the opposite team side.
Seth Nelson:
And coach is wearing the other team's jersey to fit in with the families over there and it's bad, right? But if you think about that in a very granular point, right? Coach, what position did your son play in football?
Twyla M. Marks:
DB, defensive back.
Seth Nelson:
Okay, all right. He makes a big play. He's celebrating with his team and sometimes they want to look in to the stands and see if their parents are watching. That child has to choose which way to look.
Twyla M. Marks:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
And it's heartbreaking.
Pete Wright:
That's so traumatic, it's so traumatic.
Seth Nelson:
Right. But it's better than having parents have conflict. So I always advise parents, sit together if you can without conflict. Your kid doesn't have to make that choice. And if you can't, at least sit five or six rows in line behind, and don't feel if you are in front that the there's like eyes staring at the back of your head. They're not, they're watching the kid on the field, or they're on their phone like most parents in the stands, right? Or if you're the one in the back, don't be staring at your former spouse.
Pete Wright:
I think I just got what you're talking about. Because then when the kid is on the field, they can stare at one straight line and catch both parents.
Seth Nelson:
You got it. They don't have to make the choice, one straight line.
Pete Wright:
That's so smart, Seth.
Seth Nelson:
Well, like every now and then Pete, even a blind squirrel. But coach, when you're working with the people that are coming to you, is this the type of advice you're giving them? And how do you get them or tools you give them to let go, let go of the anger, let go of the hurt, let go of it, so you can move on with your life?
Twyla M. Marks:
Definitely give them advice to move on. My motto is all about getting your happy back. And so, it's difficult to get your happy back if you're still holding grudges and still holding on the past. So at some point we have to move forward, we have to do things to go forward and move forward because that's over, it's not happening. And it's over whether they initiated the divorce or not. And so I give them tools I say, go have fun, do something that you like to do for yourself. Because a lot of times, we lose ourselves in a marriage. I know I did.
Twyla M. Marks:
I didn't even know what I like to do after I got divorced. What does Twyla like to do? So, I give them that advice and suggest that they get out there, and not necessarily get out there and start dating. No, no, no, work on you, God will do the work on you. Get into some therapy, go on a walk. Go if you like sporting events, take yourself to a sporting event, take yourself out to dinner. I know it can be awkward kind of initially, you think everybody is watching you in the restaurant.
Twyla M. Marks:
But once you get past that, because what the thing is here, what I'm trying to get them to see is that, we have to get back in tuned with who we are, who I'm I? Because I may have lost myself in this marriage.
Seth Nelson:
I agree with that 100%. And I had this view about going out to eat by myself which I did a lot. I was not going to let the fact that I was eating alone stop me from having a really nice meal. Because I'm either eating alone at home in front of the TV having crap food. Because I wasn't into cooking back then. I've changed, I cook a fair bit now. I'd like to say Pete, it's pretty tasty.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. You are a culinary genius.
Seth Nelson:
But I'm like, if I want to go out and have a nice glass of wine and a nice meal, then I'm going to go do that. And if people are looking at me, then they are looking at me, and you don't know. You might meet somebody, who knows, but you can go out and have a nice time and dinner by yourself. And so, I would encourage people to do that.
Pete Wright:
I'll tell you, I have a lot of just generalized anxiety about things, open bodies of water, sharks, the seaweed.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
But one thing that I have never had a problem doing and it always strikes me as funny is eating by myself. I get a weird subversive joy about just breaking out my phone and reading a book while I'm eating by myself. And if I can just say one thing to those who have anxiety about eating by themselves, it is a that, everybody who is staring at you is probably a little bit jealous.
Seth Nelson:
I was about to say Pete, everyone that's staring at you is like, I would rather not be on this date and just be eating by myself.
Pete Wright:
But I would get tuck into a great book with this good food and not have to worry about the social obligation.
Seth Nelson:
God, right? When the guy ordered the appetizer I knew we were done and now I've got to sit through dessert? Come on now, Pete.
Pete Wright:
Get The whole dessert, just know they are probably a little jealous and that might help you get through, get over the hump of any anxiety that comes with it. Yeah, I'm a big fan, all right. Twyla, tell us first, tell us about your podcast, or your YouTube show, right? It's a YouTube show, is it?
Twyla M. Marks:
Yes, it's a live YouTube.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, it's very fancy.
Twyla M. Marks:
So it's Divorce Talk with Twyla and it's where we talk all things divorce, from co-parenting, to dating, to financial advice. Oh, just a myriad of topics as it relates to divorce. And it's every Monday at 7:00 p.m. Central Standard Time out there on YouTube. I also go live on my Facebook pages, Divorce Talk With Twyla and my Facebook group, Life After Divorce, Get your Happy Back.
Pete Wright:
And you also have, you've got a book.
Twyla M. Marks:
Yes.
Pete Wright:
The Unexpected: The Ride of My Life. It's new chronicles your process.
Twyla M. Marks:
Yes. It's my life story. And I give the reader a snippet of who I was as a child, some issues that I went through. And then I move right on into my adulthood, marriage, divorce. I take you through the journey. I take you on the rollercoaster, the ups and the downs, the cork screws and dips.
Pete Wright:
We take it all, we take it all. Well, Twyla, I'll tell you, thank you so much for what you're doing, for joining us and talking a little bit about finding forgiveness on the way to getting your happy back.
Twyla M. Marks:
That's right.
Pete Wright:
When you're with your clients, let's just pretend for a second that Seth isn't here. When you're with your clients and they say, God, I'm having a terrible time with my attorney. Do you ever give them advice on how to like work with their attorney? You can tell me, Seth's not here.
Twyla M. Marks:
Actually, the direct answer is no. But I always tell clients because I have clients that come to me.
Seth Nelson:
Good answer. I'm sitting right here.
Pete Wright:
You're not here. Quiet you, for a second.
Twyla M. Marks:
Listen, I have clients that come to me, they may be contemplating divorce. And I do say this, I tell them this, because I did the same thing. I talked to three different attorneys before I made a decision on the one that I was going to retain. And so, I asked them to do the same and I have a very good attorney friend and she said, when a client comes to her she tells them not to hire her right off the bat. Go talk to a few more. And I did that and I agree with that 100%.
Seth Nelson:
I don't quite do that but I do do something a little different.
Twyla M. Marks:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
I will tell them that if they, I ask, have you spoken to other lawyers? And if they say yes, I'll ask them who? They get very nervous when I ask them. And they ask why I say well, I want you to go to a good lawyer. And if you keep it between us, I'm happy to give you my inside the divorce world view of my own view of whether this person is a good lawyer or not. And then I say, and I'll make you a deal, no matter how many people are on your list, if I tell you they're not good for every name that I tell you they're not good, I'll give you another name of someone that's good. Go talk to them.
Seth Nelson:
And they're like really? And I'm like, yeah, I value the attorney, client relationship immensely. It's extremely important to me. And therefore I want you to get the right fit for you and I might not be the right fit. And if I'm not, I don't want to find that out three, six months, eight months down the road, let's just get you with someone else now. And sometimes I'll get a Google review saying, great initial consultation, I actually went with another lawyer. And then sometimes say, I wish I would have gone with Seth, but sometimes it's like, it wasn't the right fit for me but he gave me other names.
Seth Nelson:
And that is just so important because not everybody gels. And it's such a hard time in people's life, there's nothing wrong with someone doing a little shopping. I get worried if they've talked to 8 or 10 lawyers, right? And if they give me the list and they're all bad I'm like okay, you're really not good at these Google searches. But other than that, you got to kind of figure it out.
Twyla M. Marks:
I agree.
Seth Nelson:
That's it.
Pete Wright:
I also value the podcast attorney relationship. It took me a long time to find the right attorney to do a podcast with. I'm glad I landed on Seth.
Twyla M. Marks:
That's awesome.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. How many lawyers did you interview, Pete?
Pete Wright:
It took me a while to get to Florida, I'm an Oregon man.
Seth Nelson:
Did they take your calls? Like, how much was the initial consultation?
Pete Wright:
That's right. Twyla again, thank you so much for your time, your participation in this wackadoo show. We appreciate your expertise in getting your happy back and finding the path to forgiveness.
Twyla M. Marks:
Awesome. Thank you also very much for having me. It was a pleasure to be here. Thank you.
Pete Wright:
On behalf of Twyla M.Marks and marks and Seth Nelson, America's favorite divorce attorney, I'm Pete Wright. We'll catch you next time right here on How to Split a Toaster, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships.
Speaker 4:
Seth Nelson is an attorney with Nelson Koster Family Law and Mediation, with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, How to Split a Toaster is not intended to nor is it providing legal advice. Every situation is different. If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your own jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney or employee of Nelson Koster. Seth Nelson is licensed to practice law in Florida.
