Answering Our Listeners’ Burning Questions
Get Answers to Your Divorce Questions
In this week's episode, Seth and Pete tackle real questions submitted by listeners who are going through a divorce or have been affected by one. They provide practical tips and legal perspectives to help you navigate some of the common issues that arise during separation and divorce.
Seth and Pete aim to offer actionable advice and reassurance that you're not alone in this difficult process. Their insights can help you make informed decisions and feel empowered, whether you hope to salvage your relationship or move forward apart.
A Few Questions we answer in this episode:
How to handle a spouse who is hiding money
What to do when your ex moves away and stops seeing the kids
Whether you can legally track an estranged spouse
If you can get an unequal division of assets if cheated on
Options if you want to stay married but your spouse won't stop affairs
How to protect yourself financially if thinking of separation
This candid episode provides perspective on dealing with some of divorce's toughest challenges. Seth and Pete's compassionate approach makes it easier to cope during this transition.
Links & Notes
Got a question you want to ask on the show? Click here!
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Pete Wright:
Welcome to How to Split a Toaster, divorce podcast about saving your relationships from TruStory FM. Today we asked your toaster what it was thinking and your toaster spoke back.
Seth Nelson:
Welcome to the show everybody. I'm Seth Nelson and I'm here as always with my good friend Pete Wright. Today it's listener question day, Pete.
Pete Wright:
Huzza! Cue the vuvuzelas, Seth.
Seth Nelson:
I think I should read the questions and you should answer them and I can tell you if you're right or wrong. And no matter what you say, I'll say you're wrong.
Pete Wright:
Why would you do that to me? That's not how our relationship works.
Seth Nelson:
That's how I think it works, but.
Pete Wright:
That's how the bell works. Okay.
Seth Nelson:
We got a lot, Pete, so.
Pete Wright:
We've got questions. We do. We got to bust through these because you're in the hot seat. Here we go. Some are short, some are life stories and we're going to do it all. Here we go. Number one, "I didn't do a prenup before our marriage and now I'm regretting that decision. Is it too late? Is there something different you can do once you're already married? And also, how do you even say that to your husband without making it look like you don't trust him?" This is from Mary Jo. Seth, is it too late to do a prenup?
Seth Nelson:
It's too late to do a prenup because you're already married. Pre is before. Nup, nuptials. You're post-nuptials. But you can do a postnup if he agrees. So I've actually done quite a few postnups and I think they're actually rather healthy, especially if, and this goes to the second part of the question. No, it's not too late. You can do a post note. But then the next part of the question is something different, yes. Third question is, how do I even say it to my husband without making it look like I don't trust him?
Pete Wright:
Yeah, that's problematic.
Seth Nelson:
That's a problem. Okay, so this part potentially could help. If one of the strains in the relationship is how you communicate or deal with or both about money, this can be an easier conversation to have because it's like something to the effect of... And check with a counselor, work on your wording. I'm just throwing out ideas, not verbatim. "I love you very much. I want to be married to you for the rest of my life. I know that we have some stresses in our marriage. One of them is financial. So one thing I was thinking about is whether you might be interested in having a postnup that defines our financial relationship. So we can have one topic, one conversation about it, solidify it as a contract, and we don't have to argue over every little expenditure."
Pete Wright:
Okay. That sounds promising.
Seth Nelson:
I've actually done this with couples that were going through a divorce and we decided to do a postnup and they stayed married afterwards.
Pete Wright:
Wow.
Seth Nelson:
Because their financial stresses were no longer there. So these are just some ideas. These aren't any cases specific that I've worked on. These are things I've seen in my career. One, what happens if we get divorced or if it's a second marriage and there's children or children from previous marriages? What happens upon death with the money? Two, while you're married, how is money going to be handled? Does someone get a quote unquote "Allowance," is the requirement for one spouse to provide the other spouse with a car of a certain value?
Wife is allowed to lease a car that the husband will pay for having no lower a value of this or this type of luxury vehicle, this thing. And they'll lease it on a three to five year lease every time, whatever. You can work out the details, but that's some of the concepts.
The other thing you can do is, this is something that I think people should do anyway, is if you're staying home with the children and you're no longer employed and you can't pay into a retirement account, maybe every year the spouse that's working will pay into a retirement account for you or put so much money in a brokerage account and that will be your money. So upon divorce, that's yours, but it's a way to build up savings throughout the marriage.
So if you do get divorced, you're not left kind of penniless. So there's a lot of different ways to talk about this. If you're just having a rough time in your marriage and it's not really about money, it might be tougher to mention this. But if they're the one with all the money, remember the prenup or postnup, excuse me, that you might be offering once you talk to council, check your local district, might be better for them. Maybe you're willing to give up some things to try to stay married that you might get in a divorce. So the devil's in the details.
Pete Wright:
In order to make money a non-issue for your relationship, this might be a way to do it. Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. Or to stay together. Yep.
Pete Wright:
So Mary Jo, not too late. That's good news. Have a gentle conversation with your partner. All right, next question. I think my lawyer is burnt out or has too many clients or something. They keep confusing my case with other clients and forgetting stuff. But they have really good ratings, so I don't know what to do. Thoughts? This is from Rob G.
Seth Nelson:
Is Rob G one of my clients?
Pete Wright:
Does that name sound just a little too familiar?
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, asking for a friend.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, asking for a friend. Right.
Seth Nelson:
So no, listen, I actually just had this conversation today with [inaudible 00:05:45]. And I said, "How are you doing?" He is like, "Oh my God, I'm so busy, I'm overwhelmed." And I said, "Stop taking cases." And he was like, "Well, I guess that's an option." So one of the problems from a family law practitioner, business owner perspective is if you're doing your job right, you hope that each one of your clients will only be a client once. It's not like I represent a large bank that sends me foreclosures, a hundred foreclosures a month. Right? And I got to keep the banker happy because that's my lifeblood. All these should be in quotes One hit wonders."
Pete Wright:
Nobody puts a divorce attorney on retainer.
Seth Nelson:
No one likes to and they don't want to have them there for years and years and years and years. So yes, attorneys get burnout. Yes, they have too many clients. Yes, if they're not organized when they're talking to you about your case, it's easy to get cases confused. Literally, I had a client once call me about a kid issue and I picked up the phone on my cell. It wasn't in the office.
And I knew how many kids and she said, "You don't remember my kids' names?" And I said, "No," and she was very offended. And I said, "I'm sorry that you're offended. The reason I don't remember them is one, in our case in court we only use initials and really they're meaningless to me. It could be any name. I've never met your kids. It's just words on a paper and I'm sorry that you feel that way."
Pete Wright:
But I remember your name.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. And I remember your case and I know the law and... Okay, so really good ratings is probably why he's getting a lot of cases. So first step, Rob, talk to him. Say, "Look, here's what I'm thinking. Here's what I'm feeling with how you're handling my case. You have great ratings, but you seem to be getting my case confused, forgetting some stuff. Is there a way that I can communicate with you when you're focused on my case?" Is these last minute quick phone calls is that's what happening?
Is it in court that it's happening? That would be a bigger problem. So I think you kind of got to get to the bottom of that and you can say, "If you're too busy, if you have too many cases, I understand that. Do you recommend me going to another lawyer?" But I wouldn't be attacking, just say, "I get it. You get great reviews. This is just what I'm feeling. And if that's not the case, can we kind of clean this stuff up?" And if he's a good lawyer, he'll either apologize or say, "Yeah, you've been right, I've been overwhelmed," or "I'm just behind," or whatever the case may be and maybe get refocused.
Pete Wright:
But the bottom line is your lawyer is a human and that's do you ever get overwhelmed that? So do they, right? This is what happens.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. Oh, hold on. Rob's calling me right now.
Pete Wright:
"You say not to post about your divorce and your ex on social media, but I'm an influencer on Instagram and TikTok. My followers literally see and know every aspect of my life. Can I really not post about it? Is that going to actually impact the outcome of the case?" This is from anonymous for now.
Seth Nelson:
Okay, so first off, we are getting a question from an influencer. So I can't wait to see the Toaster all over Instagram and TikTok. This is going to be good.
Pete Wright:
Only if you get it right Seth.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, here we go. All right. Warming up here. Okay. So check your local jurisdiction. I am conservative in nature when it comes to advising clients on what they put out there in the world because I've seen it come back and haunt them later. So here's some of the things that might... When you say, "Is it going to actually impact the outcome of the case?" I don't know the answer to that because as a typical lawyer, it depends.
But if you're supposed to be with your children and you're spending a lot of time influencing and posting and showing everything that's great with your life, but the kids aren't there, that could be a problem because I thought you're spending time with them, but now you're posting that you're out doing X, Y, and Z.
Or if you're posting stuff about your kids and you're basically putting them out there in the world, a lawyer might come at you for saying, "Really? Hey, you should just be spending time with your kids, not posting about them and you're putting them in harm's way potentially." Here's the flip side. He knows that you're an influencer, you've been married to him for X number of years, you're getting paid to do all of this stuff. He didn't have a problem with it before. Why should he have a problem with it now?
Pete Wright:
Unless that's why you're divorcing.
Seth Nelson:
Right. But people say things that aren't necessarily true. So it's a great question. You have a very unique situation. Definitely check with your counsel, local jurisdiction, the judges, what's happening. Maybe this is different if you're in LA than if you are in Topeka, Kansas. Okay? It's a really great question, but you got to think of the positives and negatives.
But I would certainly not post anything about the divorce or your ex. If you want to talk about other things that you're doing. If you want to talk about, "Hey, this is what's happening elsewhere." But for example, you don't want to walk out of a hearing that you won or lost and post something negative or even positive about the judge, you're just asking for trouble.
Pete Wright:
Okay. Okay, play it safe. We've got one on money. "You've had episodes before about spouses hiding money and stuff, how would I even know if there's missing money? What should I be looking for to identify that?" This is from Chris M.
Seth Nelson:
Great question. Whenever you are looking for money, assets, debts, it is a jigsaw puzzle and you have to get the pieces of the puzzle together before you can figure out the complete picture. So here are things that you should look for. Get their pay stubs for all year, but especially the last year pay stub because that will be showing if there's direct deposits, where are things going, bonuses.
You want to look at your taxes. And when you look at your taxes, now of course I'm assuming that they're doing their taxes properly. This isn't an audit where an auditor comes in and looks, but on the taxes there's all sorts of different schedules. There might be a schedule for rental income. Did they buy property that you didn't know about? There might be, you know how Pete, when you get your little bank statement and it says for tax purposes and it shows that you've got a dollar and 76 cents in the interest?
Pete Wright:
Yeah, it's the highest one I've ever had.
Seth Nelson:
All right. So that's why I knew because I know how to-
Pete Wright:
Are you getting my mail?
Seth Nelson:
... get to your tax returns, so. But that's going to show you that there's a bank account or an investment account or something somewhere that's triggering that, that's on your taxes. Okay? Venmo accounts, cash apps, cryptocurrency, all of these things ultimately start with transactions that are identifiable. Some people will say, "Well, what happens if there was cash?" Okay, it's really hard to trace cash now. In our society people are using less and less cash. So use those different puzzle pieces. Maybe consider hiring a forensic accountant to help you do the looking.
Pete Wright:
Forensic accountant's going to be able to find stuff, they're going to be able to find the accounts that are ostensibly hidden in their name only, right? They're going to be able to unravel that.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. You do a credit check, make sure you're getting all their credit cards to see if you see a payment of a credit card that you didn't know about and it's coming from a bank account you didn't know about.
Pete Wright:
Okay. All right. This one is just a little bit longer, so bear with me. "I'm currently in an in-house separation with my spouse going on eight months now who is very emotionally unpredictable and difficult to be around and co-parent with because of what I believe to be a severe mood disorder. The sudden changes in attitude and emotional availability, literally the most disorienting, destabilizing thing I've ever experienced in my life, it impacts and confuses our three kids ages 11, six and four.
One day he's the best, most connected, validating dad in the world. The next he's buried under pillows, sulking, cussing at me saying hurtful, confusing, and shaming things to me and the kids. We agreed that we're done working on our marriage and that this is a roommate situation for financial reasons. We co-parent and there is an expectation for both of us to take the time and energy we would've used on the marriage and use it toward becoming better parents. He has not. I'd like to put some boundaries, co-parenting expectations in a written document where we collaborate with a professional and have both he and I sign it.
This is so he has an extra more formalized form of accountability that I can hold him to and vice versa. There's a lot of gaslighting and I have to constantly make my case for simple things and boundaries that are repeatedly crossed, confronting me in front of the kids, cussing in front of them, leaving without warning when angry or locking himself in a room so I have to tough it out on my own even when I'm ill, et cetera. Who would I reach out to about working on something like this? What are some things I should be considering? Would something like this be useful in court down the road? Thanks in advance. From anonymous."
Seth Nelson:
A lot to unpack there. Check your local jurisdiction, talk to a divorce attorney. If someone came to me in Florida and asked me this question, I would say that this document would be drafted as a temporary parenting plan that would be filed in court when a divorce is filed, so it could become a court order. If it's just a document, it's not going to be terribly helpful.
Also, the fact that you want to use the document to hold him accountable and yourself, which I appreciate that part, I think you're setting yourself up for failure because you're basically saying, "If I have a document that says what we're supposed to do, then this person that I'm married to in a roommate relationship, in a co-parent relationship under the same roof that has mental illness, the document's going to fix this."
Pete Wright:
Document's not going to fix it.
Seth Nelson:
I don't believe it is. But at the beginning of this question was, "We're in this because we can't afford to get divorced." So very easy for me to say, hard for you to do. I don't know what your standard of living is or whether you're unemployed or not, but I would do everything I could to become as financially, self-sufficient as possible.
I would then try to get an arrangement to move out, get your own place. If it is a three bedroom and you sleep on the couch so the kids have their own bedrooms or if the 6-year-old and 4-year-old or both boys or both girls, whatever, maybe they can share a room. There's all different things you can do, but you can lower your standard of living, but give yourself more peace and then give you time to rebuild financially.
Pete Wright:
What's your take on the position that the spouse is emotionally unstable, unpredictable? Is there something in there that is directed toward, what can you do to help them get help?
Seth Nelson:
Well, certainly you can ask them to go to counseling. You can ask to see a mental health professional. Maybe there's some medications that might help him through these difficult times and help you and your children. You can lead a horse to water, so to speak, right? But that's the most concerning thing because we can deescalate conflict if you're not in the same house..
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Okay. Next question. "My husband moved out of state right after high conflict divorce and didn't inform me or my kids. He doesn't see the children even though the parenting schedule says he's supposed to have them for 50% of the weekends and holidays. Actually, even during the separation he was awol. Mostly sporadically he asked to see the children and half the time he doesn't follow through scheduling with me or plays games at the last minute, which is very stressful for me and the children. The children feel that abandoned, how should I respond? From anonymous."
Seth Nelson:
So they feel stressful and the children feel abandonment. Not surprising that's how the children feel. I would certainly seek a mental health counselor for the children. Follow whatever your parenting plan says on whether you have to notify him or get his consent, check with the lawyer. In a lot of agreements in Florida under the statute, you're allowed to go get mental health counseling for a child. You don't really have to clear it with the other parent. When you say, "How should I respond?" I think you should be prepared for him not to show up.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, he's already set the bar.
Seth Nelson:
Right. So you could tell the children, "Dad's supposed to pick you up. If he doesn't, this is what we are going to do." Already have a plan in place. Be prepared for that ahead of time so you're not scrambling, okay? I mean, depends what your parenting plan says, but here would be some things to communicate. "Sounds great. I'm sure the kids are looking forward to seeing you.
If you're more than a half hour late, they become very frustrated. So I already have other plans in case you can't make it." Right? You're not hiding the ball. Right? But definitely getting the kids into mental health counseling. Now this feeling of abandonment is not just when you have the situation you have. A feeling of abandonment can be a child that was put up for adoption even though they're in a loving family and got adopted at a baby and that's the only parents they know.
It happens when a parent can die in the service of our country, they will feel abandonment. Or in a car accident, God forbid for people. There's a lot of ways that unfortunately people pass when they have small children and the children feel abandoned even when it isn't the parent's fault. So don't focus on the fault aspect of this. Just try to get the mental health counseling and I would suggest having a backup plan ready to go.
Pete Wright:
Well, it feels like you're living in a backup plan. Right? And that's hard. That's additional stress of expectation and constant hope and being let down. I can't go any place other than how do you not even unintentionally alienate the other parent from their kids?
Seth Nelson:
Oh, I think you're a hundred percent right. And the other thing, which is not necessarily my favorite thing, you should certainly reach out to a lawyer that you had if you liked them and say, "Look, here's what's happening. They moved out of state. Can we just change the parenting plan?" But that's a whole nother litigation process.
Pete Wright:
Okay. All right. How about this one? "Best suggestion for long distance parenting plans when you share a child who is in elementary school?" Asks anonymous.
Seth Nelson:
That's a really good question. So typically it depends on how long is the distance. So if they're getting on a plane, then some suggestions to consider with your local counsel is long weekends and the timesharing can be the child going up to see the long distance parent or the long distance parent coming down to see the child. And I say up and down, because I'm in Florida, everything is up.
Pete Wright:
Everything's up.
Seth Nelson:
Okay.
Pete Wright:
Everybody's going to South America.
Seth Nelson:
Right. So look for spring break when there's longer blocks of time. For the summer, there's a couple ways you can consider this. Maybe you get the first week in the last week of summer and two weeks in the middle and he gets the remainder because you're not going to go back and forth week to week to week to week. Right? So that's where you're trying to carve out these times. FaceTime, phone calls every few days or once a day. If you can get along and it's not intrusive, it doesn't disrupt the child.
The more involved the parent can be when they're not in town in a positive fashion that's not disruptive is better. Couple things to think about when you're traveling though. Be flexible, but always want to have the child on the transition day or weekend. Get back on Sunday. Or if it's a long break, I would say get back on a Saturday if school starts on Monday. It's really tough flying in Sunday, flight delays, you get delayed and now you're missing school. So give yourself a buffer on travel.
Pete Wright:
Look, Seth, Ted Lasso moved to England and he had a young kid. And everybody loves Ted Lasso.
Seth Nelson:
That is a fabulous point.
Pete Wright:
Yes.
Seth Nelson:
I really think that I might be moving to work with Ted. I'm glad you mentioned that. I played college soccer as a freshman. I don't want to toot my own horn.
Pete Wright:
Right.
Seth Nelson:
So you can make it work.
Pete Wright:
You can make it work.
Seth Nelson:
Even across the pond.
Pete Wright:
If Ted Lasso can do it, here we go. "I am father of four. Some of my children were alienated against by their mother. How should I speak with the attorney for the children? I know that their mother has already coached the kids ages eight to 14 to badmouth me." This is from Dave.
Seth Nelson:
I would not use the word alienated. It's overused in court, overused by lawyers just like psychopath or narcissist or all these other terms we hear all the time.
Pete Wright:
How about badmouth, is that one that should stay away from?
Seth Nelson:
Instead of saying badmouth, I would point to specifics on how you know they've been quote unquote "Coached."
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Judges like specific recollections and testimony on what actually happened. Let them draw the conclusion that they were badmouthed. You can say stuff like, "The kids say that mom says that I am a jerk." A lot of hearsay, there's going to be a ton of objections in court on hearsay. You're going to say, "I'm not offering it for the truth of matter, [inaudible 00:24:37] judge, I'm offering it to show that's why the kids don't want to come stay with me." It's the effect on the listener. When mom says to them, "Dad's a jerk," who wants to go stay with a jerk?
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Right. Nobody wants to stay with a jerk.
Seth Nelson:
So I think you need to talk to your lawyer about why you believe what you believe. Show specific instances that you can hopefully support in some way and see what that lawyer has to say about that. Now, eight to 14 is a wide range, right? 14 year olds sometimes figure it out. I will tell you in the long run, your children will evaluate you and the relationship they have by the time they spend with you when the other parent isn't there and it usually backfires in the long run.
Pete Wright:
Well, and I think it's an important reminder to stick with what the judges like, the facts. Right? Judges like to just hear the story without your judgment of it. And that's just an important thing. We learned in episode one of this show when you started quizzing me and putting me on the stand, just stop talking, tell the story and just stop talking. I use that to this day.
Seth Nelson:
We should do that again. That was so much fun.
Pete Wright:
It was not as much fun maybe as you think it is. How about this question? "I am a divorced father with five kids. My ex and I don't see eye to eye and we fight over decision and schedule. I just found out that there is an option for me to give up my parental rights completely. I heard that the kids would probably resent, so I'm not sure this is a good option, but perhaps it would save me from a lot of conflict with my ex-wife over parental schedules and expenses.
From what I heard, it would save me on child support, which is not my goal, but I would rather not deal with my ex at all if possible because it's so toxic. So my question is why did no one ever mention this option? My lawyer and coach and judge and mediator explained custody options and no one ever told me that this is an option. And that pisses me off. Perhaps it could have saved a lot of time and money and conflict. So it's worth considering? From anonymous."
Seth Nelson:
This is not something that I mention to my clients unless they mention it to me. I don't know what your state is or check your local jurisdiction. In the state of Florida, you can't just give up parental rights. There has to be someone to step into the shoes of your parental rights. And the reason for that is a lot of people would just give up their rights and say, "I don't want to pay child support. I don't want to support this child."
And the next thing you know, this child is getting governmental services. So the public policy in the state is they should have two parents. Those two parents should support and be in those children's lives. The other thing to consider here, if you're saying, "We don't agree on decisions in the schedule."
I don't know if you have a parenting plan in place that is a court order and it's a matter of enforcing it and it sounds like that is because it sounds like it was over when you talk about the judge and the mediator. So it's about enforcement of a schedule. It sounds like you might be in a parallel parenting situation. I would try to have as least number of decisions that have to be made together as possible. But if you are literally at your wit's end with her or him and you are literally going to say, "I am going to give up my rights," I would just say agree with what they want.
Pete Wright:
That's effectively the same thing. Right?
Seth Nelson:
But you still get to see your kids.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Right.
Seth Nelson:
And when they're with you, you don't get that time back and you have five of them. So I would really talk to a lawyer about this. But if you're at the point where they're so toxic that you don't even want to see your children, that's in a bad spot and I would work on that.
I have never represented a client that told me they just want to give up their parental rights. I will withdraw from the case because it's such a permanent type of decision that you might regret for the rest of your life. So I just can't represent a client to do that. I respect their right to make those decisions. I just don't want to be involved in that.
Pete Wright:
Fair enough.
Seth Nelson:
I hope that helps. That's a tough situation.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, that's a tough one. Right. "I am an 18-year-old young man. My parents got divorced when I was 14. My parents used to fight a lot when they were married and sometimes kids were in the middle. It was definitely a difficult period in my life and I lost my relationship with my father. After going through therapy, I came to the conclusion that my father was physically abusive.
I confronted my father and he was willing to apologize for losing his temper and said that we all make mistakes and that the household was toxic, but he refused to admit specifically to abuse and discuss my specific memories of abuse. I feel like this is blocking my reconciliation. I think my father is being stubborn about using the word abuse because he thinks that he could be incriminated by admitting to a crime and it's less than statute of limitations.
So I told my father that if he's willing to meet with me and my therapist, I will sign a paper that I will not use any of his admissions in court to show his guilt. What do you think? By the way, I also have a younger brother in a similar situation and my father has been trying to do reunification therapy, but my mother won't let him." This is from Mike.
Seth Nelson:
Oh man, Mike, my heart goes out to you. First off, when you say that you're an 18-year-old man, you are very impressive because if you are trying to reconcile with your father after physical abuse and in mental health counseling and can write this type of question, you've got a good future ahead of you whether or not or whether what type of relationship you have with your father. So that is just very impressive.
Pete Wright:
Hundred percent.
Seth Nelson:
For a young man. I would be very patient with getting this from your father. One, he might, the presumption is he's not saying it because he's worried about what might follow if it's after the statute of limitations that goes out. I don't know if that's his real reasoning for not saying the words you believe you need him to say to move forward with your relationship with him.
Maybe your relationship is just at a plateau for now until the statutes run and then maybe he can speak to that or maybe he can show you by his actions on how he's treating you now that it is different. And that is a question for the therapist and for you, if there's a way to move forward with the relationship without this specific request for him to say something and mean it and use specific words.
He certainly, from what you've said, has said there was mistakes made and it was toxic. So these are all things that lead to support how you're feeling and what you're saying. But it's a big heavy ask to say, "Admit that you abused me when I was a child" and the statute is still there. And even in therapy, they might be a mandatory reporter. So it doesn't matter what that document says. Check with your local jurisdiction please. But very impressive. I wish you all the best.
Pete Wright:
"My wife is an admitted sex ed," comes our next question. "I love her very much and would love more than anything to stay in my marriage. She says she wants to as well, but she has so far refused to end her many affairs. What are my options if I want to stay married but my spouse refuses to end her affairs? Can I file for divorce on grounds of adultery even if I don't want the marriage to end? That probably doesn't make sense.
Would a legal separation be a better option than divorce if I want to stay married but need things like finances and living situations addressed? What would that entail? Is there anything I can do from a legal perspective to get my spouse to end their affairs, like filing for alienation of affection? Would that be advisable? What else should I be considering from a legal perspective, given my desire to remain married but my spouse's ongoing infidelity? What would you advise? This is an incredibly confusing time. Thank you for considering this question." From Darien.
Seth Nelson:
The main problem with your question is you have competing interests. You want to stay married. That comes through loud and clear in this question. The legal system is not really set up to keep you married and do everything else that goes on with the divorce. In Florida, so check your local jurisdiction, you can file for spousal support, not in connection with a divorce. So there's a mechanism in Florida to get what you're asking for.
Pete Wright:
What does that even mean? How does that work?
Seth Nelson:
You file, you follow the statute and say, "I do not want a divorce, but under the statute, my wife or husband is not supporting me and I want you to order them to support me." And you lay out what support you need.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
That typically will be followed up by them with just a good old petition for divorce.
Pete Wright:
Oh, okay. That's the Marco Polo of it.
Seth Nelson:
That's the rub.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Right. There's nothing that a court can really do to say that you can't commit adultery. I've never seen, and check your local jurisdiction, I've never seen a court give an order saying you can't sleep around. I think there'd be a lot of issues with that. No one is going to touch it for criminal purposes, even if it's still on the books. Can you imagine?
Pete Wright:
Well, and the fact, like you set it out, it's a competing interest. Right? The fact that it's ongoing and apparently open infidelity and they want to stay married, both of them want to stay married.
Seth Nelson:
Wait, so ultimately it appears that your wife wants to stay married and still have the ability to have these affairs and you would like to stay married without her the ability to have affairs. Ultimately in relationships, you can only make requests. And this gets to the point where you're like, "I'm out. I'm not being respected. I don't feel respected. I've made this request. I've asked this. The answer is no, so you might want to reconsider it."
Now some people have very strong religious views for staying married, so if that's part of the underlying reason on why you want to stay married, I would talk to your person of faith that you might be dealing with. But from a legal perspective, this is very difficult and I think the reason why it's incredibly confusing to you is because of the competing interest.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Good luck, Darien. This is a hard one, but thank you so much for writing this in. It's a fascinating situation. The next question is actually right on the heels of this one, Seth, "My attorney tells me that the courts don't punish infidelity directly. I think you have said the same, Seth, but can I request an unequal division of assets or spousal support since I've been cheated on? I'm sure this sounds like I'm more vindictive than I should be, but our separation is going to be financially challenging and I'm looking for a leg up. Thanks for the show, Erica."
Seth Nelson:
Great question. Under the statute in the case law in Florida, the answer to that question is yes. Does it happen in court? Usually not. So in Florida, what happens is if you can prove they've made or spent money on the affair, then you can get half that money back because they can spend half the money on a marital asset on anything they want. It's incredibly expensive to find the money and it's usually costs more than you're going to recover.
And then you're going to say, "Well, then I want them to pay fees." And now you're arguing about fees over fees. And if you get awarded fees and then you got to go collect the fees. Once again, this is where what is written on the books doesn't necessarily match up with what happens in court.
But yeah, check your local jurisdiction. It doesn't sound vindictive when you are trying to divide assets or get alimony and it's going to be financially challenging. Yeah, you're looking for every penny you can get and if the law would provide it to you based on their actions, that makes sense. It just sometimes doesn't come out that way. And you're welcome for the show. We love doing it.
Pete Wright:
Absolutely. Got a tech question. Here you go. This is good. "Our family uses Find My, this is Apple's built-in shared tracking system."
Seth Nelson:
I actually knew that.
Pete Wright:
I knew that you knew. I was for people who don't, Seth. I know you know stuff.
Seth Nelson:
I understand. I'm just shocked I know something technical. We're good.
Pete Wright:
Okay. Okay. "Our family uses Find My to track each other's locations. My husband filed for divorce. Are there implications now that I should consider since I can still track his location? I don't think he's thinking about this. I could turn off sharing, but I wonder if this information would be useful in our divorce somehow." From anonymous.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, he could turn off the sharing as well. He hasn't. You can track him.
Pete Wright:
Oh, that seems pretty straightforward.
Seth Nelson:
You didn't expect that answer? Yeah. Look, you can't go break into an email account or you know where he keeps his passwords and go do that and read his attorney-client emails. But this is an app on your phone. He has it. He has the ability to turn it off, he hasn't. You're allowed to track it. There's no invasion of privacy issues. You guys have put it on your phones.
Pete Wright:
So you show up in court and the partner who is tracking has screenshots of locations on addresses of where this person has been. You would go ahead and use it. Not a problem. Even if he comes back and says, "Oh my God, what are you doing? You can't use that. I didn't know. I didn't know."
Seth Nelson:
Yes, and I have. And yes.
Pete Wright:
Oh, outstanding.
Seth Nelson:
Check your local jurisdiction.
Pete Wright:
Fair enough. There you go.
Seth Nelson:
And remind me, Pete, to turn off my Find My after the show. It is funny. My wife and I actually had this conversation. She goes, "Should I track you?" I'm like, "You can track me." She goes, "It just seems weird." And I said, "I hear you, because we trust each other, so why would I have to track?" I said, "Well, if I'm going out on a long bike ride, I want you tracking me. There's now where if you're in a car accident it can notify you. So there's a lot of positives to it." And I said, "And also you don't know about my three other phones, so I'll just leave it at home when you're out of town."
Pete Wright:
Next question. "I just listened to this week's episode, Rebuilding Post-Divorce Financial Confidence with Leah Hadley." Now this is, at this point, it's a few weeks back. "I have a question about other penalties. I am the victim of financial abuse. Can I sue my ex in some other way after the divorce is settled? Is there a case to be made for his horrible treatment and stealing from me all these years that might be better for me than trying to do it all through my divorce, which is ongoing." This is from Donna in Michigan.
Seth Nelson:
I do not know Michigan law. Typically, in a divorce case, it will settle, especially if it's a settlement agreement. It's going to settle all issues that could have been brought between the parties. So be very careful when you're signing a marital settlement agreement. Definitely check with your local jurisdiction, talk to a lawyer about other potential causes of action. That's what you're saying. Can I sue the ex in some other way?
We would call that a cause of action that you could bring against your spouse while you're married to say that they have committed some sort of civil wrongdoing to you. So identity theft. Maybe they took their social security number, they did this, they ran up all these credit cards that you didn't know about. They forged your name and bought stuff. There could be other things out there, but you have to get with a lawyer on this.
Pete Wright:
Because order of operations matters.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah,
Pete Wright:
It sounds like.
Seth Nelson:
If you waive everything, it could be a problem later in civil court.
Pete Wright:
Interesting. Sounds like get a lawyer, check your local Michigan jurisdiction, Donna. But thank you for the question and hope that gives you some direction. And that Seth, is the end of our question session.
Seth Nelson:
How did I do Pete? I mean, I know you don't know the law, but did it at least sound like I knew what I was talking about?
Pete Wright:
It sounded pretty good. It sounded pretty good. I'm just a dumb country podcaster, Seth. But it sounded good to me. This was actually really fun and I learned some stuff for sure, and I hope, I hope, I hope that y'all who wrote in got something out of it. And keep those questions coming. We enjoy sometimes stacking them up like this, but honestly, we would love to get back to doing questions every single episode like we have done in the past. So keep those questions coming and we will absolutely get them answered.
Seth Nelson:
You know the thing I like about doing them? I like doing them during the show because I think it's a good break of the show. You hear it, it's like, "Oh, maybe I didn't think of that." One thing that's kind of nice about doing them together as well, and sometimes we have enough to do one in every show and we still have so many we have to do a separate show, you're not alone out there. Look at all these people going through this.
And we talk about the number of downloads that people are listening and let's be honest about it, this is never going to be the number one podcast downloads when you compare it to news or sports or politics where things are happening all the time. It's usually people going through a rough time, but you're not alone out there. And so look out for support groups, look out for other people that have gone through it that are focused on you. Talk with mental health professionals and get the advice and make the changes that you can make to improve your life and your relationship mainly with yourself.
Pete Wright:
This is the last episode for us for this year, this calendar year, Seth. I just can't believe it. We're off to holiday, but we sure hope that you all will stick with us. Have a fantastic holiday season, whatever that means to you and yours. And we will be back just after the new year in 2024.
Seth Nelson:
2023 has been a crazy year.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
A lot of positive in my life, some negatives with my father passing a few weeks back. And we had that whole grief episode that you and I did, Pete, a few seasons back after my mother passed two and a half years ago. But on a whole, I've been very thankful for you and for, I'll even say it, and Andy, behind the scene guy. It's been a great year. I love what we're doing with the show and how we're touching people and they're reaching back out with questions and comments and likes and "Thanks for this" and "Thanks for that." Those thank yous mean a lot to me. So Pete, Andy, thank you for all you do and thank you to all our listeners.
Pete Wright:
Absolutely. We will be back early next year after our holiday break and what we're going to come back with is a very special episode, Seth. We, you and I are putting ourselves under the lens of our past guests. Bethany Nicole is coming back, has done readings for us. And we have both said that maybe we don't understand what astrology is all about and so we're going to do it live. Are you ready for this?
Seth Nelson:
I am ready because literally next week with this special episode, she's just going to tell me what my life is like and what it's been and how I am. And I might agree. And if I do, I'll be like, "Bethany, where have you been all my life?"
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Right.
Seth Nelson:
Right.
Pete Wright:
Right.
Seth Nelson:
Exactly.
Pete Wright:
It's going to be great.
Seth Nelson:
It's going to be great. And we had to give her our date of birth, our time of birth, which I found.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
I found out that I was birthed and not hatched like my father told me all those years. So I am excited about this.
Pete Wright:
So thank you again everybody for downloading and listening to this show. We appreciate your time and attention. On behalf of Seth Nelson, America's favorite divorce attorney, I'm Pete Wright and we'll see you next year right here on How to Split a Toaster, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships.
Outro:
How to Split a Toaster is part of the TruStory FM Podcast Network, produced by Andy Nelson. Music by T. Bless & the Professionals and DB Studios. Seth Nelson is an attorney with NLG Divorce & Family Law with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, How to Split a Toaster is not intended to, nor is it providing legal advice.
Every situation is different. If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney or employee of NLG Divorce & Family Law. Seth Nelson is licensed to practice law in Florida.
